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Can anyone shed any light on this?


Alexxx-Returns
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So it's no secret that I hate myself a lot, for the reasons that I do. And the reason I stay away from people that I care about is because I imagine that they hate me for the same reasons. And since everyone around me kept telling me "no one hates you, it's all in your head", I still had the same theory that people hated me for the reasons that I hate myself.

It was only recently I actually considered that people might hate me for different reasons than mine, things I didn't know I was doing.

I was fully aware that my flatmate hated my guts, I've known this for a long time, but it was only last night that he actually told me that he hated me. And you know what, that was still kind of shocking to hear, and the reason for that is because I spent the whole year trying to minimise the interaction that I had with him (and everyone else I live with, because I know he isn't the only one who feels this way) so that he didn't have to hate me. I tried to make things better, I stayed in my room the whole year (except when I needed a shower or to get food or drink from the kitchen) so this could be a good environment for him, and everyone else. So that's why I was upset to find out that my efforts to make things better hadn't worked.

And that's when I thought that maybe there was something I was doing, or something about me, that was a problem, that I didn't know was a problem. But I don't have the self-awareness to know what it is. All I know is that there IS a problem.

And even if I knew why people hate me, how could I possibly change my personality? That's my life dream, right there. But I don't know how changes can be made.

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9 minutes ago, Saxon said:

If you spend a lot of time feeling paranoid that people won't like you, then you're going to be awkward to be around and people won't enjoy your company. Moreover you shouldn't have to lock yourself away to avoid the possibility of other people not approving of you; not everyone in life is going to like everyone else. That's their own problem, not yours. 

I don't lock myself away out of fear of being disliked - I already know they dislike me and I lock myself away so they don't have to be around me and deal with disliking me. I don't WANT to cause a problem for people, but this has shown me that despite trying, I still am.

If I avoid a person who hates me, and at the end of the year they still hate me, it's not their problem.

I think it's wrong that you'd try and... justify... the situation and say "no things are okay with you and you don't need to change", when I clearly do. I just want to know what I need to do to be a person that people won't hate.

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Just now, Saxon said:

Worrying about how people perceive you all the time is going to mean you aren't fun to be around. Stop worrying about it, be yourself and don't lock yourself away from people.

Locking yourself away from people will make everybody else think you're odd...and then you'll be locking yourself away because you're worried that they think you're odd.

But if I spend time around people and be myself I will drive them mad. If I spend time around them they WILL have a reason to hate me

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6 hours ago, Alexxx-Returns said:

I was fully aware that my flatmate hated my guts, I've known this for a long time, but it was only last night that he actually told me that he hated me.

And that's when I thought that maybe there was something I was doing, or something about me, that was a problem, that I didn't know was a problem. But I don't have the self-awareness to know what it is. All I know is that there IS a problem.

Just ask them. 

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^^^Pretty fucking much

 

Liiike, if someone straight up confronts you saying they hate you (and thats pretty blatant), a viable response is easily "Why?" Obviously you arent trying to get people to hate you besides being yourself, but youre assuming theres one youre unaware of, so why not ask

 

 

Bonus points, if someone is blunt enough to straight up say they hate you, say exactly what you told us. You know, you hate yourself, you dont mean to be a burden to others, and you try not to press your issues onto others and make them uncomfortable

 

I mean if someone's going to be dead honest with you for once, you both need to go all the way and communicate all the hidden charades social situations normally would dictate you dont show.

 

At that point, any decent human being who recognizes someone has that much self loathing and is already conscious that they bug someone else, not intending to, well, they shouldnt intentionally hate you at that point

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Alexxx-Returns said:

She just gets stressed about it because she doesn't want me to hate myself. She thinks the sun shines out of my ass.

Ha nice phrasing!

I'm not much help because I suck at changing my personality to be more likeable too. But I think it's odd this person hates you. Dislike, maybe. But hate? That's a bit strong isn't it?

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I was doing research for my psych class on personality disorders and what you're describing seemed to be a symptom for some of them, those some which I now foget because IDK why... it doesn't mean you have one, it could just be that you have that way of thinking and you just need to retrain yourself to understand that not everyone dislikes you, quite obviously some people will not, but the majority of the time if people hang out with you they don't dislike you... otherwise they'd say they didn't want to hang out with you at all

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6 hours ago, Alexxx-Returns said:

And even if I knew why people hate me, how could I possibly change my personality? That's my life dream, right there. But I don't know how changes can be made.

If you can't think more positively, then try to act more positively. Even if you don't feel that way.

If you're always talking about why everyone hates you, why everything sucks, etc. you are only showing negativity.

People aren't going to want to be around you if that's the case.

7 hours ago, Alexxx-Returns said:

I was fully aware that my flatmate hated my guts, I've known this for a long time, but it was only last night that he actually told me that he hated me.

Context, please?

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Majority of people don't hate you right off the bat. We just don't give a single shit about you. Only people that will hate you at first sight are those that are usually racist against you or know that you're gay/straight/helicopter/whatever. Trust me mate, you don't need to worry about what anyone else thinks considering its nothing aside from "I don't know nor care"

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1 hour ago, WolfNightV4X1 said:

^^^Pretty fucking much

 

Liiike, if someone straight up confronts you saying they hate you (and thats pretty blatant), a viable response is easily "Why?" Obviously you arent trying to get people to hate you besides being yourself, but youre assuming theres one youre unaware of, so why not ask

Take it from Tyler Durden.

 

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1 hour ago, WolfNightV4X1 said:

^^^Pretty fucking much

 

Liiike, if someone straight up confronts you saying they hate you (and thats pretty blatant), a viable response is easily "Why?" Obviously you arent trying to get people to hate you besides being yourself, but youre assuming theres one youre unaware of, so why not ask

 

 

Bonus points, if someone is blunt enough to straight up say they hate you, say exactly what you told us. You know, you hate yourself, you dont mean to be a burden to others, and you try not to press your issues onto others and make them uncomfortable

 

I mean if someone's going to be dead honest with you for once, you both need to go all the way and communicate all the hidden charades social situations normally would dictate you dont show.

 

At that point, any decent human being who recognizes someone has that much self loathing and is already conscious that they bug someone else, not intending to, well, they shouldnt intentionally hate you at that point

 

 

 

I have already said this before, he is well aware. I think there are multiple reasons he has had it out for me from the beginning, one of which is quite sensitive and I dont think he would appreciate me saying.

42 minutes ago, Ricky said:

If you can't think more positively, then try to act more positively. Even if you don't feel that way.

If you're always talking about why everyone hates you, why everything sucks, etc. you are only showing negativity.

People aren't going to want to be around you if that's the case.

Context, please?

Flatmates were having drinks getting ready to go out to the big party at another students place, brother and girlfriend of another flatmate suggested I go. I knew this wouldn't be something many people would appreciate. I started drinking with them anyway. Guy in question found out I was coming and said he thought I shouldn't because there were multiple people who had already said "if Alex is going, I don't want to go". So I decided not to go.

Guy in questions starts telling me how rude and aggressive I get when I'm drunk (coming from the guy who got arrested twice for drunk behaviour and got punched in the face for drunk behaviour and got his nose broke) and how I can't act like that in a super condescending voice. Despite the fact that his friends are just as bad when they are drunk.

(I think that he tends to see more problems in ugly girls than he does good looking girls to be honest, and I know people will be like "but you're not ugly!" But I think it has a lot to do with how I dress- and that gets into that thing I was saying above that was pretty sensitive, and me theorising at best)

So I decided to drop the pretence, I am only living here for 2 more days and after that we won't ever talk again. And he said something along the lines of "I fucking hate you, I can't wait till you're gone". To which I pretty much said the feeling's mutual.

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Okay, so that was a fight, it wasn't some dramatic moment of revelation of deep-seeded hate. Fights happen, just don't take things so personally and stop getting so angry about shit. If you can't, then control yourself and your actions. Simply go outside for a walk instead of getting all angry and starting a fight you are later going to regret. Especially if you were drinking. Things like that happen, and they simply die out and go away 99.9% of the time by the next day.

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People conflict. There's no way around this. It's inevitable. It WILL happen, regardless of WHAT you do to avoid it.

You seem to validate yourself solely through the opinions of other people. You need to stop doing that.
Learn to filter what's good criticism, and what's simple conflict of interest.
It will do a lot better for you.

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If you are "trying to make people like you", you are doing it wrong.  When you ingratiate yourself on people and/or hide from them to avoid conflict you come across as inauthentic and weak.  That's what people hate.  If you want people to like you be confident, honest, helpful, generous, caring, and most importantly be yourself.  

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3 minutes ago, Strongbob said:

If you are "trying to make people like you", you are doing it wrong.  When you ingratiate yourself on people and/or hide from them to avoid conflict you come across as inauthentic and weak.  That's what people hate.  If you want people to like you be confident, honest, helpful, generous, caring, and most importantly be yourself.  

I think I agree with what you are saying, just to add that I don't think it's bad to avoid conflict at certain times.

Avoiding all conflict means you are a weenie, but sometimes it's good to be the mature one and prevent stupid shit from escalating.

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57 minutes ago, Ricky said:

Okay, so that was a fight, it wasn't some dramatic moment of revelation of deep-seeded hate. Fights happen, just don't take things so personally and stop getting so angry about shit. If you can't, then control yourself and your actions. Simply go outside for a walk instead of getting all angry and starting a fight you are later going to regret. Especially if you were drinking. Things like that happen, and they simply die out and go away 99.9% of the time by the next day.

No, it really was a dramatic revelation. I'd known for a long while that he felt this way, I could tell from his body language, and the way he talked to me.

I feel sort of bad in the fact that I like everyone. I give people lots of chances, and I like to see only the good in everyone. I love people, and I get a little sad when people talk about how awful they feel that people are. And then there's this guy who I have come to really dislike, and I feel like it takes a lot of work to make me dislike someone (there are some things that a person could do that would make me instantly dislike them though, such as murdering cats).

Again, that's not something that happened overnight. I wasn't just being part of a fight when I said I really disliked him, I meant it and still do.

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15 minutes ago, Alexxx-Returns said:

No, it really was a dramatic revelation. I'd known for a long while that he felt this way, I could tell from his body language, and the way he talked to me.

I feel sort of bad in the fact that I like everyone. I give people lots of chances, and I like to see only the good in everyone. I love people, and I get a little sad when people talk about how awful they feel that people are. And then there's this guy who I have come to really dislike, and I feel like it takes a lot of work to make me dislike someone (there are some things that a person could do that would make me instantly dislike them though, such as murdering cats).

Again, that's not something that happened overnight. I wasn't just being part of a fight when I said I really disliked him, I meant it and still do.

Then why are you always talking about how nobody else likes you? 

You're contradicting yourself. 

You see everyone as disliking you.

That is not seeing the best in everyone. 

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Seeking approval from others for happiness will never make you happy. For those that can't accept you for who you are were probably never your friends or people worth knowing in the first place.

Don't be so hard on yourself, being happy with yourself comes first. 

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1 hour ago, Alexxx-Returns said:

Don't forget, I loathe myself, so therefore, someone disliking me is a compliment =P

Picking on a minor point that's been persistent in your posts, don't mind if I spoiler it

I have friends that I think are cute as hell, and really sweet on the inside. I tell a number of them this outright, most times they accept it, other times they half-heartedly dismiss it before blushing about it. A few seem to just absolutely hate it, no matter who it comes from, and they tend to hate themselves already for god-knows-what reason. I don't know what it is, others don't know what it is; we give them the benefit of the doubt all the time until it reaches a point where they evidently don't care about what we say.

I like you and I think you're attractive. I'm not the only person that thinks this at all, as evidenced previously on this forum for sure. You don't care, but I wish you'd like yourself a bit so it's easier for others to like you, for you to enjoy it instead of rejecting it. That's fine, nobody's making you care, but you have to acknowledge how unhealthy that mindset is and what it reveal to others.

I'm not exactly Captain Confidence myself, but nobody likes it when I shit all over myself verbally. It brings the mood of others down, it's insufferable of me. It's also kind of shitty to bat people away when they're just trying to brighten you up. Sure, it may be naive of them, it might not solve anything, but in social interaction you might as well just appreciate the effort if you want people in your life to stick around instead of discard you as a lost cause.
Even if you think it's worthless, at least try to appreciate where it comes from. Make some closer friends out of it. Think outside of yourself and acknowledge that people disagree with what you have to say about yourself. Try value it instead of being so cynical.

It's not as if you have to do a song 'n' dance to show your appreciation. But if you keep dismissing peoples' attempts to be positive - no matter how feeble - you're only going to give people the message that you don't want to be spoken to because you're so confident in what your inner voice says compared to others, despite what horrible things that inner voice repeats.

Look at it for what it is: people trying to be nice to you. Or are you going to insinuate that we're dishonest and we actually just kind of hate you instead? Yeah, no.

TL;DR people like you. You don't know why, but just enjoy it while its there.

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Who gives a fuck if someone doesn't like you? Instead of sitting in a single room for an entire week+ contemplating how you'll stop that exact person from disliking you go out and do something fun. If you don't feel like leaving it then at least listen to music on headphones or something to get your mind off of it. It's not like you expect him or anyone else to come in at some random point with a fucking assault rifle over it, one persistent asshole's thoughts won't do shit to you unless you let them.

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12 hours ago, Alexxx-Returns said:

So it's no secret that I hate myself a lot, for the reasons that I do. And the reason I stay away from people that I care about is because I imagine that they hate me for the same reasons. And since everyone around me kept telling me "no one hates you, it's all in your head", I still had the same theory that people hated me for the reasons that I hate myself.

First off I am curious to what about yourself you hate so much?

Second, you hate yourself, and you assume other people hate you too (for the same reasons). This to me seems like you have less of just a "self loathing" thing and more of an anxiety or depression kind of thing. Or a terrible self-image thing.

I am not an armchair psychologist, though, but I will do the whole cliche thing and suggest that even seeking some kind of psychiatric help may be a good thing. Doesn't mean you have to continue with it for a long time, but understanding what is going on in your head may help. You can even get multiple opinions if you like.

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3 minutes ago, Crazy Lee said:

First off I am curious to what about yourself you hate so much?

Second, you hate yourself, and you assume other people hate you too (for the same reasons). This to me seems like you have less of just a "self loathing" thing and more of an anxiety or depression kind of thing. Or a terrible self-image thing.

I am not an armchair psychologist, though, but I will do the whole cliche thing and suggest that even seeking some kind of psychiatric help may be a good thing. Doesn't mean you have to continue with it for a long time, but understanding what is going on in your head may help. You can even get multiple opinions if you like.

Heh, I went to be assessed for CBT and they said I was so fixed in my beliefs about myself that they couldn't help me

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Just now, Crazy Lee said:

Well, not to sound cliche but if you never want to change, then you won't change. That's just fact.

It sounds like I don't want to change, but I really do. I don't want to spend the rest of my life feeling this way, because I don't wanna look back on it and know that I wasted it like this. It's not easy for me to stop thinking this way. If I something good about myself, I feel like such a fraud. I hate lying to people, I feel like I have to tell them the truth unless it's important for whatever reason to lie. And telling them something good about me feels like lying to them.

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27 minutes ago, Alexxx-Returns said:

Heh, I went to be assessed for CBT and they said I was so fixed in my beliefs about myself that they couldn't help me

Your healthcare system is trash. 

Anyone can benefit from CBT. 

In fact it's so easy anyone can apply it. 

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2 hours ago, Alexxx-Returns said:

It sounds like I don't want to change, but I really do. I don't want to spend the rest of my life feeling this way, because I don't wanna look back on it and know that I wasted it like this. It's not easy for me to stop thinking this way. If I something good about myself, I feel like such a fraud. I hate lying to people, I feel like I have to tell them the truth unless it's important for whatever reason to lie. And telling them something good about me feels like lying to them.

I know what this is like. Your brain has you so convinced that it's right, that you find any excuse to reject any logic that proves you wrong. I know you don't think it's wrong, because it feels like you can't be wrong about it when based on your observations and experiences. I'm told this is fixable with therapy, but I'm not sure myself.

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1 hour ago, root said:

I know what this is like. Your brain has you so convinced that it's right, that you find any excuse to reject any logic that proves you wrong. I know you don't think it's wrong, because it feels like you can't be wrong about it when based on your observations and experiences. I'm told this is fixable with therapy, but I'm not sure myself.

What is, being stubborn? :V

4 hours ago, Alexxx-Returns said:

And telling them something good about me feels like lying to them.

Oh, don't even try to play that card. That is the worst excuse I've heard to actually having to work on fixing your problems. As if people ask you "how are you doing" or "what did you do over the weekend" you always give an honest upfront and sincere answer, "Well boss, I was typefucking with this furry and we felt really close but then I found out about his IRL m8". Yeah, no x3

Again, it's simple: start acting positive and everything else will follow. That's only if you WANT to fix your alleged problems. If it's that big of a deal for you then you outta.

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3 minutes ago, Ricky said:

What is, being stubborn? :V

Oh, don't even try to play that card. That is the worst excuse I've heard to actually having to work on fixing your problems. As if people ask you "how are you doing" or "what did you do over the weekend" you always give an honest upfront and sincere answer, "Well boss, I was typefucking with this furry and we felt really close but then I found out about his IRL m8". Yeah, no x3

Again, it's simple: start acting positive and everything else will follow. That's only if you WANT to fix your alleged problems. If it's that big of a deal for you then you outta.

I DO give honest answers to those sorts of questions though. It's way less work than making something up =)

I've been thinking about this whole situation, and I'll be honest, it's given me so much perspective. I've spent so long in fear of people hating me for the circumstances of my birth that I can't control. And now that it's actually happened, and I've thought about what I could have possibly done to deserve THAT much hatred... there is nothing. I haven't done shit to him. Like I said, I even tried to make things better, and I was ALWAYS civil. Sometimes when we were all in the kitchen talking, I'd even forget that I disliked the guy and the conversation would flow well. If he DOES hate me because I remind him of someone he already hates, that really isn't my problem, and he needs to learn to deal with those kinds of feelings.

I always thought that if someone told me they hated me, I'd just say "yeah, I hate me too", or something. But I didn't, and I don't reckon I could say that now, not to him. Having had this finally happen, it's not so bad. It makes me wonder what I was so afraid of. And it also makes me feel like if people are going to hate me even if I shut myself away so they don't have to suffer me.... why bother? I wanted to do something un-selfish. I felt that to hang out with people for human contact would be a benefit to me, but would be making them suffer, which defines selfish behaviour. So the selfless thing to do would be to hide away at my own expense, so they could be not around me which would benefit them - the definition of altruism.

But then again, this whole thing proves that there are plenty of asshole people who have tons of friends, so one selfish act might not put people off.

It's made me realise that having people hate me isn't so bad. I'm still here, I'm not hurt. If I think about it, he is probably more hurt by this whole thing than me, because he is the one who has been sat around getting more and more mad at me for no reason.

I'll work on it. It's going to take some time considering I'm an autistic piece of shit but I know it can happen eventually.

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Whenever you feel bad about yourself, just remember that we're all human and we're all garbage. Being aware that you have faults puts you in a better position to fix yourself than all the self important cunts who can't be assed to try fixing themselves because they never feel the need to.

Hell, I started going to therapy because I was fluctuating between extreme anxiety attacks and wanting to rip people's heads off. Both of those things still happen now and then, but far less and I find them far easier to deal with now.

It sounds as though you're having issues with self esteem, which is also something I have experience with from a much younger age. There are a lot of approaches you could take, but given what I know now my approach probably isn't what you need. You've put too much emphasis on what other people think of you and it's become something you're so used to hearing that you began to see it as the truth. See a psychologist. They understand how our brains and thought patterns work and will be able to figure out the best way to get you on a more positive front.

 

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I've been thinking about the people at the board game club that I go to. They like me, and I'm very much myself around them.

It makes me wonder whether they like me because I'm being myself, or whether I'm being myself because they like me.

Maybe it's a vicious circle and the positive vibes and the being myself feed each other. Maybe it is that. I like going to those meets, people there seem really happy that I go, and they're glad that I have fun there and get involved.

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1 minute ago, Alexxx-Returns said:

I've been thinking about the people at the board game club that I go to. They like me, and I'm very much myself around them.

It makes me wonder whether they like me because I'm being myself, or whether I'm being myself because they like me.

Maybe it's a vicious circle and the positive vibes and the being myself feed each other. Maybe it is that. I like going to those meets, people there seem really happy that I go, and they're glad that I have fun there and get involved.

Then use the vicious lovely cycle! If you don't want to go for the new start thing (Go somewhere where people don'T know you yet and thus can't hate you yet and be yourself), you can go for circle enlargement, see if there is anything more to do with your board game pals. Something where it is as much of them as you feel you need (so you can be yourself and have a good time) and as many new people as you can take  (so they can meet happy-lexx, not loath-returns, and become your friends/like you)

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6 minutes ago, Alexxx-Returns said:

I've been thinking about the people at the board game club that I go to. They like me, and I'm very much myself around them.

I found the same when I began attending wargaming clubs and such a few years ago. We'd play 40k, there'd be banter and all in all we'd be at ease and have fun.

There's less pressure to impress people, so you tend to be more relaxed and more yourself. I imagine the principle is much the same. If you've got common ground with them, try building on it. Most of the friends I have now are people I met through Games Workshop and gaming clubs. I have no contact with any of the people I know from school anymore. What started out as a niche hobby we shared turned into a more substantial friendship and now we all have essentially the same social life you'd expect of anyone else.

Sounds like you already have a starting point, so go for it. And keep positive.

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Alexxxx, from my interactions with you, I don't think you're a bad person or someone worth hating. I'm sorry this bad interaction happened, but it kinda sounds like your roommate is a fucking dick.

This probably won't change any of your own perceptions of you, but you know, a few of us strangers think you're pretty alright. Maybe worth considering next time you're feeling extra low.

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I think people hate you because you hate yourself. And you're too comfortable hating yourself to change that, so you probably hate yourself more for thinking you want to change but can't. But you obviously know not everyone hates you. You post here, right?

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