the UK Fun Tax

[Faust]

You know, I am sick to frigging death of the way that UK legislations kill off the chances of doing so very many fun things that other parts of the world enjoy with little restriction and similarly little incident. There are things I would dearly like to do, but refrain from because they are technically illegal even though plenty of people seem to do them anyway.

Prime example: Segways. Slow, auto-balancing modes of transport, not practical but lots of fun. Certainly less dangerous than the average mobility scooter user. And yet, due to outdated and restrictive motor vehicle laws, the only place that it is legal to ride one is private land. You know how many people have any significant amount of private land in the UK? Most of the people I know don't even have a garden!

Another one: drones. You can't fly them within 50 metres of another human being. You can't fly them within 150 metres of a building or structure. Where can you fly them? Not even your back yard because, surprise surprise, that's likely to be closer than 150 metres to your neighbour's house. You've got to go to the middle of nowhere, and even then you've got to make sure that nobody else is around first. Ridiculous. And don't get me started on the cost of getting a license for commercial use!

When oh when will the UK stop punishing responsible people from trying to have fun, and concentrate on punishing people who are actually causing trouble?

[WileyWarWeasel]

You forget, dear @Faust, that

There seems to be a wh40k image for every occasion.

[Saxon]

I don't own a drone or a segway, so I wasn't aware they were heavily regulated.

I find the general English culture pretty stuffy and tiresome though.

[Faust]

Yeah. The annoying thing is I don't think anyone bothers to enforce the laws. You see plenty of skateboarders without helmets or kneepads, and lots of them go down the middle of the roads - they're not road legal vehicles and technically are not permitted on footpaths or cycle paths either - but they don't often get arrested either. As such, all these 'laws' serve to do is ensure that it's the people you don't want doing these things that are the only ones who actually do.

[DrDingo]

Yes, they're technically against the law. But who's gonna arrest a kid for playing with a drone in the park or riding up and down their street on a segway?

You're taking this at face value. You won't get in trouble unless you act suspiciously, endanger people or cause distress

[Saxon]

21 minutes ago, DrDingo said:

Yes, they're technically against the law. But who's gonna arrest a kid for playing with a drone in the park or riding up and down their street on a segway?

You're taking this at face value. You won't get in trouble unless you act suspiciously, endanger people or cause distress

I saw the mayor of Oxford stop a 10 year old boy from riding a bicycle a while ago.

[Alexxx-Returns]

IIRC, the UK is the only place in the WORLD that has these restrictions on using segways

[Saxon]

8 minutes ago, Alexxx-Returns said:

IIRC, the UK is the only place in the WORLD that has these restrictions on using segways

What else do we expect in Television license land?

[Feelwell]

10 minutes ago, Saxon said:

What else do we expect in Television license land?

I want to see somebody get their house invaded by the SWAT for having a TV without a license.

[Saxon]

Just now, Feelwell the Rabbit said:

I want to see somebody get their house invaded by the SWAT for having a TV without a license.

The BBC actually used to drive around 'television detector vans' with goons inside them to frighten people into paying up.

I don't think you even can detect a television.

 

 

[Hux]

1 hour ago, Saxon said:

The BBC actually used to drive around 'television detector vans' with goons inside them to frighten people into paying up.

I don't think you even can detect a television.

 

 

Why haven't you guys fed everyone who works at the BBC to the Kraken?

[Alexxx-Returns]

They CAN'T detect televisions without licenses. They assume that everybody owns a TV, and go pay a visit to addresses that aren't registered for a licence.

There's an address around where we live that has no house associated for it, and the TV license guys come to our house thinking its that address.

[Saxon]

3 minutes ago, Hux said:

Why haven't you guys fed everyone who works at the BBC to the Kraken?

Because we can't resist the D.

They CAN'T detect televisions without licenses. They assume that everybody owns a TV, and go pay a visit to addresses that aren't registered for a licence.

There's an address around where we live that has no house associated for it, and the TV license guys come to our house thinking its that address.

I think there is a myth that back in the day when televisions used cathode-ray machines that you might be able to detect Beta radiation emitted by leaky ray tubes, so if you drove around a place without  any licenses and detect the radiation you could see if there were televisions.
But there are two big problems with this, beta particles only travel 2m in air and the detector vans were claimed to be able to detect television sets that weren't even on.
So your suggestion is probably correct.

Nowadays, since televisions are routinely internet-connected, you could probably just detect many sets electronically.

[Jtrekkie]

5 hours ago, DrDingo said:

Yes, they're technically against the law. But who's gonna arrest a kid for playing with a drone in the park or riding up and down their street on a segway?

You're taking this at face value. You won't get in trouble unless you act suspiciously, endanger people or cause distress

 

Having enough obscure laws that every citizen is technically a criminal, but they are only enforced if he is "suspicious?" I really don't like the law being used discriminately like that.

 

48 minutes ago, Saxon said:

Because we can't resist the D.

I think there is a myth that back in the day when televisions used cathode-ray machines that you might be able to detect Beta radiation emitted by leaky ray tubes, so if you drove around a place without  any licenses and detect the radiation you could see if there were televisions.
But there are two big problems with this, beta particles only travel 2m in air and the detector vans were claimed to be able to detect television sets that weren't even on.
So your suggestion is probably correct.

Nowadays, since televisions are routinely internet-connected, you could probably just detect many sets electronically.

 

Even if you could detect beta radiation the detectors wouldn't be able to sort through all of the interference. Anyway, since television sets (at least used to) use superheterodyne receivers you could pick up the local oscillator pretty easily- if the receiver is turned on. I'm sure there are all kinds of technical problems actually implementing such a thing, but it is possible.

[Fossa]

Huh, those are some odd laws. I can see regulating drones, on the property of others. I've never had a gun, but I hate the idea of snooping people, and have considered a shot-gun, to get rid of unwanted drones, if they ever become a nuisance. (Which will probably also be illegal, to shoot them. But if it's on my land, poking and prying about, I consider them fair game to take a load of buckshot!)

[Gator]

13 hours ago, Faust said:

When oh when will the UK stop punishing responsible people from trying to have fun, and concentrate on punishing people who are actually causing trouble?

maybe when it stops being the UK?

[WileyWarWeasel]

9 hours ago, Jtrekkie said:

Having enough obscure laws that every citizen is technically a criminal, but they are only enforced if he is "suspicious?" I really don't like the law being used discriminately like that.

I agree 100% with this and it's a shame that it's becoming the norm around the world.

The establishment in Serbia turned its legal system into this and as a result of this and other brilliant measures nothing works properly there. You can't even run any sort of real business without inevitably breaking so many laws and being buried in taxes & fees that you're sometimes better off declaring yourself "unemployed" and simply paying off the local authorities when they investigate (ie get a slice of the action).

It's the sort of "everyone is a criminal but enforcement is optional" legal system that leads to massive corruption at all levels of society.

[Faust]

11 hours ago, Saxon said:

Because we can't resist the D.

If you tried to feed Attenborough to the Kraken he'd frigging document it. And probably tame it.

[Saxon]

4 hours ago, WileyWarWeasel said:

I agree 100% with this and it's a shame that it's becoming the norm around the world.

The establishment in Serbia turned its legal system into this and as a result of this and other brilliant measures nothing works properly there. You can't even run any sort of real business without inevitably breaking so many laws and being buried in taxes & fees that you're sometimes better off declaring yourself "unemployed" and simply paying off the local authorities when they investigate (ie get a slice of the action).

It's the sort of "everyone is a criminal but enforcement is optional" legal system that leads to massive corruption at all levels of society.

While I think England has many tedious laws I do not think that there is a corruption culture here.
I think that it is instead symptomatic of the stuffiness and prudishness of our political classes- the people who require that all public schools have religious instruction.

Any other English users remember the mandatory daily prayer and christian music sessions?

 

[WileyWarWeasel]

1 hour ago, Saxon said:

While I think England has many tedious laws I do not think that there is a corruption culture here.
I think that it is instead symptomatic of the stuffiness and prudishness of our political classes- the people who require that all public schools have religious instruction.

Any other English users remember the mandatory daily prayer and christian music sessions?

 

Alright it is a bit different in UK/England.

[Faust]

2 hours ago, Saxon said:

Any other English users remember the mandatory daily prayer and christian music sessions?

You could be excused from them if your parents objected on religious grounds. I had several friends who didn't attend. The rest of us contented ourselves with corrupting the lyrics into hideous blasphemous hilarious politically incorrect forms.

[Saxon]

55 minutes ago, Faust said:

You could be excused from them if your parents objected on religious grounds. I had several friends who didn't attend. The rest of us contented ourselves with corrupting the lyrics into hideous blasphemous hilarious politically incorrect forms.

One child at my school got punished for not being able to pronounce Satan correctly. Apparently his ignorance was 'disrespectful to god'.

 

[Faust]

4 minutes ago, Saxon said:

One child at my school got punished for not being able to pronounce Satan correctly. Apparently his ignorance was 'disrespectful to god'.

Can't think why that would matter. Satan is at best a euphemism, at worst a title, meaning simply 'Adversary' and most likely being a holdover from the 'Devil's Advocate' of Judaism.

They probably didn't know much about the bibble.

[Saxon]

Just now, Faust said:

Can't think why that would matter. Satan is at best a euphemism, at worst a title, meaning simply 'Adversary' and most likely being a holdover from the 'Devil's Advocate' of Judaism.

They probably didn't know much about the bibble.

Their incorrect pronunciation was 'Saturn'.
They were pretty much humiliated for being an 'idiot' in front of the whole school because they were made to stand up as they got lectured about how offensive they had been. *confused shrug*.

[Faust]

Ugh. Some people.

Not all UK schools were like that back in the day. At my school for example, I had to be humiliated for cutting up my sausages the wrong way. (Yes, this really happened. I don't like nasty, gritty, greasy sausage skins so I used to dissect my sausages to remove them before I ate them.)

[Fantasma]

Wow, I had no idea england was *that* bad.

Public school religion? Punishing people for having fun? This is some deep south shit but without the good food and friendly people (and hopefully less racism!)

[Alexxx-Returns]

7 hours ago, Saxon said:

Any other English users remember the mandatory daily prayer and christian music sessions?

 

Yes, it's all coming back to me now! I even had favourite hymns!

Our school actually had its own hymn book printed so they asked everyone to vote on what ones they wanted in it.

Then I went into sixth form and stopped giving a shit so I skipped prayer almost every morning.

Anyone else's school have its own song? (That was in the book too I think)

[Fossa]

3 hours ago, Saxon said:

Their incorrect pronunciation was 'Saturn'.
They were pretty much humiliated for being an 'idiot' in front of the whole school because they were made to stand up as they got lectured about how offensive they had been. *confused shrug*.

Huh, somehow I imagine these schools to be like the one in Pink Floyd's, 'The Wall'. 

[Saxon]

5 minutes ago, Alexxx-Returns said:

Yes, it's all coming back to me now! I even had favourite hymns!

Our school actually had its own hymn book printed so they asked everyone to vote on what ones they wanted in it.

Then I went into sixth form and stopped giving a shit so I skipped prayer almost every morning.

Anyone else's school have its own song? (That was in the book too I think)

I'm surprised that they had prayers in your sixth form. (for non-English users, this is ages 16-18).
When I went to secondary school they didn't require public prayer, so I was only made to sing god's graces until I was 11.

My infant and junior schools did have their own song, but I can't remember it anymore.

Huh, somehow I imagine these schools to be like the one in Pink Floyd's, 'The Wall'. 

Hey, Teacher! Leave those kids alone!

[Lopaw]

I remember going underground in this mining museum place, everyone had to leave all their phones and things that may make sparks outside because the mines and quarries act 1954 said so.

This place stopped being a active coal mine 40 years ago.

I think most of legislation banning phones because sparks came from early ones and radio stuff having long whip anntenas on, which if the filter capacitor on said antenna was faulty significant DC voltage would build on the antenna to the point of sparking if too near certain things.

This mainly becomes a right sod a petrol stations and annoys me as  I have been in a place where there was a small but real risk of the place going up in flames.

 

[FenrirDarkWolf]

50 minutes ago, Alexxx-Returns said:

Anyone else's school have its own song? (That was in the book too I think)

(Most schools in the US have them, they're a very school pridey thing. I don't remember the lyrics to mine, but I remember having played it for over 6 years for band.)

Also if I'm reading this right... you need to have a licence to own a TV?

[Saxon]

Just now, FenrirDarkWolf said:

Also if I'm reading this right... you need to have a licence to own a TV?

You have to pay an annual fee to the BBC in order to receive a license, so that you can watch television broadcasts.

You might never watch a BBC programme on your television, but you still have to give them lots of money for some unexplained reason.

[FenrirDarkWolf]

Just now, Saxon said:

You have to pay an annual fee to the BBC in order to receive a license, so that you can watch television broadcasts.

You might never watch a BBC programme on your television, but you still have to give them lots of money for some unexplained reason.

...whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[Saxon]

Just now, FenrirDarkWolf said:

...whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

The BBC was established a long time ago when television was rare, so people who owned televisions paid money to the broadcasting corporation so that they could afford to produce shows. The BBC was the only broadcaster at this point.

Eventually alternative commercial channels that used advertising to make their money began to broadcast, but the requirement to pay the BBC still remained in place.

As a consequence the BBC has no adverts on its channel, unlike every other channel, and most people think that the television shows they produce are of high quality (I disagree, because they produce television shows like Doctor Who, which are objectively shit).

...and that's the story of why it's illegal for me to watch television unless I'm at my parent's house. C:

[Wax]

2 hours ago, Saxon said:

(I disagree, because they produce television shows like Doctor Who, which are objectively shit)

Nah son, Doctor Who was fantastic when it was revived between 2005-2008, but it has gone majorly downhill, to the point where I gave up watching it a few years ago

[Zeke]

So no porn, no flying hobby drones, no Segways, and what else have they banned yet?

[LazerMaster5]

You Brits and your trivial regulations on electronics. You should come to Freedomland, where you can own as many TVs as you want and you can ride segways and you can fly drones freely. Just don't expect the politicians to work in your best interests.

[WileyWarWeasel]

3 hours ago, LazerMaster5 said:

You Brits and your trivial regulations on electronics. You should come to Freedomland, where you can own as many TVs as you want and you can ride segways and you can fly drones freely. Just don't expect the politicians to work in your best interests.

Unlike the UK government which works for the City of London.

[Tyranno]

6 hours ago, LazerMaster5 said:

Just don't expect the politicians to work in your best interests.

Back when the Labour government, which is several tiers more left-wing that the US liberals did any things in people's best interests.

They decided that since nationalism is racist, they tried to wipe out British culture pretty much. I'm no patriot, but I've been around the world and ctually living in the country that isn't allowed a cultural identity was still a bit sad.

There was such an incident as a burglar breaking into a house and putting a lawsuit on the people after they tried defending themselves.

They didn't take kindly to parents hitting children either. Thing is, there was no Juvenile Hall or whatever, so for many years kids grew up without repercussions. Probably has something to do with the gangs of kids in this country.

There's nothing wrong with people being outraged at the police shooting a black man, but during the riot an interesting thing happened - some people obtained items illegally. Numbers of fake protesters shot up, realising they could use the riots and people's outrage over a genuine tragedy as an excuse for their greed and narcissism. Many people lived in Government-controlled homes, which they couldn't be evicted from, as punishing them for destroying peoples' livelihoods would "be a breach of their human rights".

But they deserved sympathy because they're poor on the UK benefits system, which was/is corrupt to the point people were encouraging their kids to not work, as doing honest work brought in less money.

But some SJW people could at least argue the people whose workplaces were robbed were whi - oh, they were often foreigners, guess even the SJW crowd don't have an argument.

Following the terrorist gunmen in France, it was brought up due to the low number of cops with firearms, England would likely sustain many more causalities. At this point the Labour leader sent a message talking about how it "isn't British" to arm the police - yes, the leader of the party responsible for eliminating most of British culture wants us to be patriots and let ourselves be shot to death.

At least in America, the dark side of liberalism won't make an appearance the SJW crowd are dangerously close to being on the path to making white people second-class citizens in twenty years or so.

Personally, I'm waiting for the time when the major election parties are the Green Party and the BNP - the country will be screwed afterwards, but the election time should be entertaining.

[Saxon]

6 hours ago, Tyranno said:

Back when the Labour government, which is several tiers more left-wing that the US liberals did any things in people's best interests.

They decided that since nationalism is racist, they tried to wipe out British culture pretty much. I'm no patriot, but I've been around the world and ctually living in the country that isn't allowed a cultural identity was still a bit sad.

There was such an incident as a burglar breaking into a house and putting a lawsuit on the people after they tried defending themselves.

They didn't take kindly to parents hitting children either. Thing is, there was no Juvenile Hall or whatever, so for many years kids grew up without repercussions. Probably has something to do with the gangs of kids in this country.

There's nothing wrong with people being outraged at the police shooting a black man, but during the riot an interesting thing happened - some people obtained items illegally. Numbers of fake protesters shot up, realising they could use the riots and people's outrage over a genuine tragedy as an excuse for their greed and narcissism. Many people lived in Government-controlled homes, which they couldn't be evicted from, as punishing them for destroying peoples' livelihoods would "be a breach of their human rights".

But they deserved sympathy because they're poor on the UK benefits system, which was/is corrupt to the point people were encouraging their kids to not work, as doing honest work brought in less money.

But some SJW people could at least argue the people whose workplaces were robbed were whi - oh, they were often foreigners, guess even the SJW crowd don't have an argument.

Following the terrorist gunmen in France, it was brought up due to the low number of cops with firearms, England would likely sustain many more causalities. At this point the Labour leader sent a message talking about how it "isn't British" to arm the police - yes, the leader of the party responsible for eliminating most of British culture wants us to be patriots and let ourselves be shot to death.

At least in America, the dark side of liberalism won't make an appearance the SJW crowd are dangerously close to being on the path to making white people second-class citizens in twenty years or so.

Personally, I'm waiting for the time when the major election parties are the Green Party and the BNP - the country will be screwed afterwards, but the election time should be entertaining.

Most of this is bullshit, Tyranno. ._.

I'm not a labour supporter either; I'm not allied with any political group, but come on man- this is some unholy combination of all the most clichéd spit-balling political tirades I've ever heard.

 

 

[Tyranno]

35 minutes ago, Saxon said:

 

I'm not a labour supporter either; I'm not allied with any political group, but come on man

 

 

Actually, I don't really follow politics either (though I did vaguely remember these incidents), so I had someone double-check I wasn't mentioned things that didn't happen.

Also, the part about religion sounded suspiciously like an attempt to get empathy from American liberals, even though firstly, religion isn't really associated with the political groups here, and secondly, AFAIK the American connection between Christianity and republicans is relation to the creationist sect of Christianity, which is virtually nonexistant here or most places that aren't America.

Seemed more than fair to list things UK liberal group actually has caused (for the record, I find nothing wrong with American liberal politicians; UK ones on the other hand...)

[Saxon]

4 hours ago, Tyranno said:

Actually, I don't really follow politics either (though I did vaguely remember these incidents), so I had someone double-check I wasn't mentioned things that didn't happen.

Also, the part about religion sounded suspiciously like an attempt to get empathy from American liberals, even though firstly, religion isn't really associated with the political groups here, and secondly, AFAIK the American connection between Christianity and republicans is relation to the creationist sect of Christianity, which is virtually nonexistant here or most places that aren't America.

Seemed more than fair to list things UK liberal group actually has caused (for the record, I find nothing wrong with American liberal politicians; UK ones on the other hand...)

We don't live in a country which isn't allowed a cultural identity. We have a reigning monarch, a national church and mandated prayer in schools.

The 'burglar lawsuit' you referred to concerns the aftermath of a failed burglary, in which two sadistic burglars were chased out of Munrir Hussain's home. Munrir Hussain, his brother, and two others, pursued one of the fleeing burglars, a man called Salem with 50 previous convictions, and beat him over the heard with cricket bats and hockey sticks, continuing in spite of please from a witness to stop, until Salem became seriously brain damaged.
Munrir and his Brother were given 30 and 39 months jail time respectively.
So this is a nuanced example of an individual case, which was ruled not to be self defense, not 'all burglars are entitled to sue if their victims attempt to defend themselves'.

Blaming youth crime on people failing to hit their children enough is just confusing, given that children who get beaten are more likely to develop anti-social mood disorders as adults. http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/bul/128/4/539/

And I think you have misrpresented the 2011 riots following the killing of Mark Duggan. I think that they were indeed unjustified 'party' riots, but I disagree that it was all the horrible poor people, because prominent rioters included celebrities like Jamie Waylett, who was in the Harry Potter films.

[Tyranno]

1 hour ago, Saxon said:

Blaming youth crime on people failing to hit their children enough is just confusing, given that children who get beaten are more likely to develop anti-social mood disorders as adults. http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/bul/128/4/539/

And I think you have misrpresented the 2011 riots following the killing of Mark Duggan. I think that they were indeed unjustified 'party' riots, but I disagree that it was all the horrible poor people, because prominent rioters included celebrities like Jamie Waylett, who was in the Harry Potter films.

Fairly sure children who grow up without or with minimal repercussions for their actions are somewhat liable to become criminals. I'd imagine that happens to people who don't know the difference between wanting something and being entitled to it.

Also - they are (were?) becoming gangs of violent criminals in their youth, so what they develop into as adults was still a way away.

The only reason for mentioning poor people was because there is a liberal-associated mentality that its okay if poor people do it or that poor people can't do bad things, and again, the whole "these people who damaged.destroyed peoples' livelihoods, but we must keep giving them more money than some working people get, or we would be violating their human rights, and we must keep them in council houses even though there's loads of (potentially) not immoral homeless people living on the street" thing.

[Saxon]

1 hour ago, Tyranno said:

Fairly sure children who grow up without or with minimal repercussions for their actions are somewhat liable to become criminals. I'd imagine that happens to people who don't know the difference between wanting something and being entitled to it.

Also - they are (were?) becoming gangs of violent criminals in their youth, so what they develop into as adults was still a way away.

The only reason for mentioning poor people was because there is a liberal-associated mentality that its okay if poor people do it or that poor people can't do bad things, and again, the whole "these people who damaged.destroyed peoples' livelihoods, but we must keep giving them more money than some working people get, or we would be violating their human rights, and we must keep them in council houses even though there's loads of (potentially) not immoral homeless people living on the street" thing.

I don't want to ruin this topic with a tangent.
You simply ignored the study I quoted, which showed that the argument you're making in favour of hitting children isn't supported.

I don't think anybody seriously thinks that all victims in society are magically exempt of any responsibility to do good. I think this is just an excuse to be mad at those awful liberals.