the gender megathread

[willow]

making this thread partly to carry over discussion from another thread but also because I guess having a catch all thread for general discussion on gender related issues, not just as it relates to trans people but cis men and women too. if you're questioning, feel free to ask questions (is that redundant?)

ITT let's talk about gender and gender identity 

I'd put up some links but I'm on my phone and it takes a lot of effort just to do that so I'll just do a general overview to start and maybe fill in the rest later

so to start: 

gender is the way you as a person perceive yourself in relation to your biological sex. in more recent years gender is considered to be a more fluid concept rather than a rigid binary system, which is how we get identities such as fluid, agender/non-binary, and so on

so let's discuss

[Snagged]

I still take the word Gender as your biological sex. Your sexual identity is what you identify as (I for example would like to identify myself as hermaphrodite) 

I know it's just semantics but I wanted to get this out of my system

[Alexxx-Returns]

Sex: Female

Gender: Female

I'm not honestly fussed though. I don't put a lot of stock in it (aside from being an angry feminist =V). I don't like to consider myself either gender in any social aspect because I don't like the idea of social roles for either gender. I feel that people should be able to do whatever they do as long as it's not hurting anyone.

[willow]

10 minutes ago, Snagged Cub said:

I still take the word Gender as your biological sex. Your sexual identity is what you identify as (I for example would like to identify myself as hermaphrodite) 

I know it's just semantics but I wanted to get this out of my system

You sexual identity would be your sexual orientation 

hermaphrodite (or intersex when talking about humans) is a biological sex so you can't exactly identify as it

a lot of people still take sex and gender to be the same thing since about 95% of people's sex and gender are the same, so don't feel bad for thinking that way 

[Snagged]

1 minute ago, willow said:

You sexual identity would be your sexual orientation 

hermaphrodite (or intersex when talking about humans) is a biological sex so you can't exactly identify as it

a lot of people still take sex and gender to be the same thing since about 95% of people's sex and gender are the same, so don't feel bad for thinking that way 

By that, I wish I was a herm but the male mental personality type would still remain dominant

Perhaps I mishprased

And if you've followed the mugshot thread, you know I am a male

[willow]

5 minutes ago, Snagged Cub said:

By that, I wish I was a herm but the male mental personality type would still remain dominant

Perhaps I mishprased

And if you've followed the mugshot thread, you know I am a male

ohh okay, that makes more sense 

[kazooie]

for the purposes of things like statistical analysis and medical/physiological treatment, biological gender's important

 

outside of those areas, the junk someone has seems pretty irrelevant to me

[Astus]

13 minutes ago, kazooie said:

for the purposes of things like statistical analysis and medical/physiological treatment, biological gender's important

 

outside of those areas, the junk someone has seems pretty irrelevant to me

This ^

[Snagged]

@Saxon I blame my English teachers and past society for my "outdated" terminology

[willow]

15 minutes ago, Saxon said:

 

Anyway, regards the OP ( @willow ), is there any research which suggests that gender fluidity or non binary genders are real or not? 

I'd have to look into it if there's actual research but if you're looking for something purely scientific, I doubt it because it's a social identity

so any research I'll find is basically 'we've noticed more people doing this thing and here's why'

[PastryOfApathy]

Whenever I hear people start calling themselves 'genderfluid' or whatever, I get this sudden need to kill myself.

It's weird. 

[kazooie]

21 minutes ago, Saxon said:

Anyway, regards the OP ( @willow ), is there any research which suggests that gender fluidity or non binary genders are real or not? 

if you're running a definition of gender than doesn't encompass the person's physical sex, then i dont see why it cant be a spectrum

 

hell, even physical gender isn't cut-and-dry all the time

Edited February 27, 2016 by kazooie

[Joel]

I'm am male I have checked my privilege already so no need to tell me to. :V

But in all seriousness I see people as people first and the gender they identify as second 

[willow]

3 minutes ago, Saxon said:

I was hoping for something similar to the identification of sex-ambiguous brain structure in transgender people, which lends credence to transgender being a real medical condition. 

I mean I can check later but I kind of consider non-binary or fluid identities to be more about a social state of mind than about medical transition or whatever else 

but I'm not either of those so I don't know for sure 

[kazooie]

17 minutes ago, Saxon said:

You need evidence to decide which, if any, of those models is a good representation of reality

question: does society perceive non-biological gender as a binary?

within society exists human beings that do not identify with being either male or female

human beings compose society

therefore society, to a certain degree, does not perceive non-biological gender as a binary

 

if you're asking about the extent to which this identity is prevalent, look up census studies on gender, I guess?

Edited February 27, 2016 by kazooie

[willow]

seeing as how a lot of our concepts of gender rely on social norms and expectations, it's really not that hard to perceive gender as spectral/fluid rather than rigid/binary 

it's also important to note that usually the decision isn't usually just you wake up one day and decide you're gonna be different or special

[#00Buck]

Remember when reporting crime to police don't jump to conclusions about race, gender, sex or anything else. 

Simply tell the police it was a human. That's the right thing to do. 

[Vae]

On the topic of gender fluidity:
Other people may experience this differently (and probably do), but if someone can feel more comfortable with themself as a gender opposite of their body, it's really not that odd that this can also fluctuate.

Gender identity also isn't solely reliant upon dysphoria. One's perception of themself, their comfort levels, and how they want to present themself do not have to come with a "you must me this much fucked up to ride" sign.
In the same sense that I do not have to have a medical diagnosis attached to my name to feel more comfortable identifying as "Vae" instead of my RL name, and for other people to be expected to respect that in instances outside of legal ones.

[willow]

12 minutes ago, Saxon said:

I'm really not quite sure what makes 14 year olds identify as bigender, no. 

I think these are ficticious genders.

I think that gender follows from the biological sexes, which are almost exclusively binary with a small number of hermaphrodites who exhibit mosaic sexual characteristics, and that consequent social ideas of gender norms are tailored towards male and female. [so far all obvious]

Brains tend to also follow physical sexual characters, being generally more male-typical or female-typical in structute, or mosaic in rare cases, in which case a mismatch of someone's personal feeling of which sex they belong to can be generated in contrast to their real sex. 

So this gives us an idea of what trans gender actually is. 

 

Do notions of gender fluidity, bigender, nonbinary gender, trigender and so forth fit into this model? If they did, then we would fairly expect people who feel they are nonbinary, for example, to possess atypical mosaic brain structures which neither resemble the brains of cisgender people or the brains of transgender people. 

I suspect that such mosaic brains don't actually exist. 

 

 

you're trying to look at this from a purely medical/scientific standpoint which you can't exactly do because you won't be satisfied with explanation argument to the contrary

[Vae]

While I do agree that things like identifying as fucking faegender or whatever are ridiculous,
I also don't see why we need to play the Oppression Olympics on how someone can or should identify themselves.

Identity is not a mental disorder by definition, unlike... you know... actual mental issues. Like autism.
And there isn't some elite club involved in that only those most troubled should have their identities considered valid.

[Fantasma]

I see gender fluidity as people who have different societal norms, it is all these white country influences that say differently but I hear a great deal of more naturalistic societies not creating these strict gender walls. It's not a mental condition so much as someone not erecting silly walls around their identity.

 

I'm pretty sure there is tons of medical research to support us trans people... like how is that even a question?

[Gryphoneer]

26 minutes ago, Saxon said:

I would be very satisfied with evidence to the contrary, which I think is fair, right?

There you go, Fall- er, Saxon.

Your bio-essentialist narrative is fallacious. Intersex people are routinely assigned sexes at birth if they have ambiguous genitalia.

Gender does not follow from "biological sex." Both of these entities are social constructs.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Gryphoneer

[Vae]

3 minutes ago, Saxon said:

Being transgendered is actually defined as a medical condition. This is fair enough, because people who feel they are in the wrong body because their brain architecture is not aligned with their sexual anatomy, may need counseling to help them feel okay with themselves, or hormone therapies and even surgery. 

 

I suspect other gender identities are just made up by people trying to be trendy. 

I'm not saying that there are absolutely no people with dysphoria, because there are.
But gender identity isn't a mental disorder by default.
Lacking dysphoria also does not invalidate someone's personal identity, if they don't suffer personal distress from the disconnect between their anatomy and their self-identified gender.

All squares are rectangles, but all rectangles are not squares.
Etc.

[Toboe]

8 minutes ago, Saxon said:

I suspect other gender identities are just made up by people trying to be trendy. 

So, real: {male, female} and the possibly of the medical condition transgender. Rest made up?

[Vallium]

I have at least one good sort-of trans friend who identifies as 'genderfluid' :<

In this case, its not to be a'special snowflake'...it actually seems quite common for trans people to fluctuate as either, because they arent totally one way or another, and it feels almost hopeless and impossible sometimes.

You might have the mental makeup as the opposite gender but your physical limitations prove otherwise. You might bail on the idea of trying to pursue transition some days and just accept your physical self as well as the roles that come with it youve grown to know...whereas other days its not right at all and you circle back to it feeling uncomfortable. If I had to guess this is what a genderfluid person may feel.

 

As far as agender know people identify this way because male or female they feel apart from any societal standards culture may press on them, and instead of feeling as one or the other they would be distinctly neither.

 

As a personal aside, I think I would consider myself 'agender' sometimes as a safety net when its not emotionally safe to be fully either...as weird as it is to say. I guess its not so much a gender as it is a mental mindset, kind of a blockade between identity types.

 

All that weirdness aside, 'tumblrsexual' is in no way valid either. The way I can see it, ambiguous gender by sex/culture means you can be male, female, ambiguously feel both, or ambiguously feel neither. But the whole 'trigender pyrofox' thing is moreover a way of saying "I feel like this sometimes and I feel like that sometimes and also I am not human", which is snowflakism territory. People try to justify the 'expression spectrum' as some rainbow as genders and you can have more than two genders, but this is completely off because regardless of physical/mental standing there are only two. The expression spectrum simply states there are a wide variety of people, male or female, that exhibit culturally made and stereotyped traits of a gender but its not the same as having a brand new gender. Im referring to the existence of 'girly girls', 'manly men', 'masculine women/tomboys/butch', 'feminine males/metrosexual/fruity men'. These all encompass difference and variety in culture structure rather than what people play off as separate gender entities. Or people who want to be human chameleons for gender expression and be wearing frilly feminine clothing one day and buff and tough the next. This isnt a gender change so much as an expression change. I would think gender change kind of exhibits physical sex trait aspects of some sort on a personal level for it to be such.

Edited February 27, 2016 by WolfNightV4X1

[Vallium]

1 hour ago, Saxon said:

In other animals true bilateral hermaphrodites exist, such as rare examples of butterflies, chickens and zebra fish whose left half is male and whose right half is female (Or reversed), which is genuinely cool, but if my memory serves me well that's impossible in humans due to our ontogeny being different. 

 

 

This is correct actually, to further this part Saxon,because its a very interesting phenomenon. Its called sex reversal or gynandromorphism and the visual results are stunning

 

In nature it kind of gives validity to the fact that physical sex traits of both can and do exist in conjunction in one organism. 

This is neat because unless you're a medical professional you cant always tell a human has both sex traits (excepting whats shown as ambiguous genitalia and other secondary sex traits like voice, hair growth, body structure). Some of it may well just be internal. But with these sexually dimorphic traits in natural showing more visually that sex traits can coexist it's pretty interesting.

[Hakar-Kerarmor]

Hey guys, I have a penis, but I also like cute animals. Obviously, I cannot be a male, and must be fluff-gendered, right?

[Vallium]

6 minutes ago, Saxon said:

@WolfNightV4X1 Yeah it's pretty amazing those organisms can actually exist. I think the frequency of 'half-n-half' butterflies is 1 per 50,000. 

Yup and sadly a lot of people want to be special snowflakes because we're attracted to rare things, and people want to fight to be unique. Therefore there's a lot of people that will claim to be multigendered when they really arent, and it can be hard to tell who is a valid trans person and who's a trendy kid at times

[Teto]

I've had issues with gender for a long time. There was a week in 2012 when I was sure that I was transgender, but looking back after that week, I concluded that it was a lack of solid personal identity and desire to have a support group. I used to quietly assert that, if given the opportunity, I would absolutely be born again as a woman, and that I would prefer that life.

That said, I don't really have serious issues with being a man, apart from the fact that I can't be satisfied with short hair, and whenever I feel myself conforming too much toward a masculine face, I try and deviate. I don't really know what that's about yet though. It just doesn't really feel like me, whether that's about masculinity or not, I don't know. I think I just want to tend toward androgynous features as I am now, which is why I'm in the process of growing out my hair again, with the goal of having it super long and maybe putting it in a bun. It would most likely be a feminine hairstyle. I prefer myself as androgynous, and dislike my masculine features. I feel daft going in circles here, but I just haven't figured myself out yet.

Essentially I just want to look like a woman, maybe sound like a woman if it makes me less strange. But "be a woman", I don't really know. I don't care much about gender, more about gender expression. I feel like I could be satisfied just looking like a woman, and identify as female just for the sake of everyone else's clarity. Like, if I was dressing as a woman permanently, people would be like "what do I call you???" and I think I'd just be like "if it makes it easier, call me a woman, but I don't really care that much".

I have a few friends who identify with "they" pronouns, and while at first it's hard to shake the connotations of "they" as a distant, impersonal pronoun, it's not that bad. The only person who really notices you saying "they" is the person it matters to.

[Vallium]

On 2/27/2016 at 2:22 PM, Teto said:

I've had issues with gender for a long time. There was a week in 2012 when I was sure that I was transgender, but looking back after that week, I concluded that it was a lack of solid personal identity and desire to have a support group. I used to quietly assert that, if given the opportunity, I would absolutely be born again as a woman, and that I would prefer that life.

That said, I don't really have serious issues with being a man, apart from the fact that I can't be satisfied with short hair, and whenever I feel myself conforming too much toward a masculine face, I try and deviate. I don't really know what that's about yet though. It just doesn't really feel like me, whether that's about masculinity or not, I don't know. I think I just want to tend toward androgynous features as I am now, which is why I'm in the process of growing out my hair again, with the goal of having it super long and maybe putting it in a bun. It would most likely be a feminine hairstyle. I prefer myself as androgynous, and dislike my masculine features. I feel daft going in circles here, but I just haven't figured myself out yet.

Essentially I just want to look like a woman, maybe sound like a woman if it makes me less strange. But "be a woman", I don't really know. I don't care much about gender, more about gender expression. I feel like I could be satisfied just looking like a woman, and identify as female just for the sake of everyone else's clarity. Like, if I was dressing as a woman permanently, people would be like "what do I call you???" and I think I'd just be like "if it makes it easier, call me a woman, but I don't really care that much".

I have a few friends who identify with "they" pronouns, and while at first it's hard to shake the connotations of "they" as a distant, impersonal pronoun, it's not that bad. The only person who really notices you saying "they" is the person it matters to.

With 'they' its actually quite normal if you think about it, if you did not know the gender of the subject who you were speaking of you would use it.

"Who took the last donut?"

"Im not sure but they were here before and they went that way"

In this case its easily talking about one person and it wouldnt be a stretch to use the pronoun on someone who eschews any readily defined gender pronoun. 

I would draw the line at made up pronouns like hir/xir/otherkinself because thats unnescessary. Some people use "it" but I find that more offputting than they...but then again people use it for babies and animals so it stands to reason as a decent pronoun

Edited February 29, 2016 by WolfNightV4X1
"it" not it

[paroapockinroo]

4 hours ago, Saxon said:

I'm really not quite sure what makes 14 year olds identify as bigender, no. 

I think these are ficticious genders.

I think that gender follows from the biological sexes, which are almost exclusively binary with a small number of hermaphrodites who exhibit mosaic sexual characteristics, and that consequent social ideas of gender norms are tailored towards male and female. [so far all obvious]

Brains tend to also follow physical sexual characters, being generally more male-typical or female-typical in structute, or mosaic in rare cases, in which case a mismatch of someone's personal feeling of which sex they belong to can be generated in contrast to their real sex. 

So this gives us an idea of what trans gender actually is. 

 

Do notions of gender fluidity, bigender, nonbinary gender, trigender and so forth fit into this model? If they did, then we would fairly expect people who feel they are nonbinary, for example, to possess atypical mosaic brain structures which neither resemble the brains of cisgender people or the brains of transgender people. 

I suspect that such mosaic brains don't actually exist. 

 

The reason you think this is quite simple, and the same reason as to why gender norms / standards are different in culture to culture and that is because gender is relative to culture.

In India and Native American cultures, there is a widely accepted androgynous / transgender identity that is nationally accepted as a "third" gender.

The reason people believe that gender can only be binary is because it -is- only binary in America according to how the country was built off of Western religion and ideas that appealed towards that, which aligns with the idea that there should be one man and one woman in sex, and so their genders should align in an equally represented way that separates them so we can tell what type of sex a person has. The people who feel that their genders do not align with these things feel this way because they are able to recognize what gender means outside of a social viewpoint that is dependent on a singular culture. And sometimes its not so much that these people want to call themselves something different, but its that by simply dressing / acting in a way thats natural to them, they cause everyone else around them extreme confusion. So in a way, assigning themselves a label to separate them is giving them a voice on how they feel they should be perceived, because societies walls and standards surrounding gender cause them to be stereotyped, misinterpreted, and outcasted.

Like, apparently because I dress very masculine / androgynously and always cut my hair short I'm supposed to be a lesbian and have been hounded all my life that I will never appeal to men, when really the two don't correlate at all. Also, because I am a female, I'm supposed to feel empowered by feminine things, doing group activities with other females, and somehow stuff like "girl power!" is supposed to make me feel good. It disgusts me quite frankly because it makes me feel as though the -only- thing that can make me have positive traits has to be based on my gender. Not to mention there's this idea that women have to be submissive in bed at all times and never speak their minds about anything because apparently all of this behavior- if deviated from- makes me or other women like me unappealing to men. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever in my mind. Not to mention that due to a lack of complex female characters in the media, it often makes it easier to relate to male characters. Hiccup from How To Train Your Dragon might be a character I'd use to describe my personality though he is biologically male, or Marty McFly from Back To The Future. 

Anyway, sorry if that got rantish. It's just honestly some people do feel that way and it makes them extremely self conscious and impacts their daily living. Someone calling me "Princess" at an amusement park or someone telling me "you look so much better when you actually try and be girly" can make me want to just go home and cry and never get out of a bed, not to mention I don't even want to leave the house once my hair grows too long for me to feel good about myself. Sorry I don't have a really logical explanation as to why. 

 

Edit: On your mention of the mosaic brains thing though, every single one of my other friends who identify as nonbinary somehow are neurodivergent in some way. All of them have dissociative issues, depression, anxiety, personality disorders, past trauma, etc. ... though I'm not really sure if this is a viable / good excuse for anyone who feels unaligned with their gender. The two may go hand in hand, but I don't think its fair to say "all people who feel this way must be mentally ill in some way."

Edited February 27, 2016 by paroapockinroo

[kazooie]

5 hours ago, Saxon said:

People who perceive gender as spectral may just be trying to appear more unique or special. 

you know, you keep demanding evidence from people, but the claim

 

"there are people who identify as neither gender"

is far more reasonable than

"there are people who identify as neither gender but they might be delusional or lying, who knows!"

 

so yeah, I'm pretty sure the person claiming that a portion of humanity is delusional/lying is the one who shoulders the burden of providing evidence

 

e: also the first statement is true regardless of the validity of the second

Edited February 27, 2016 by kazooie

[Luka]

I am whatever you want me to be, dearie.

[MuttButt]

I'm decidedly male, there's never really been any question about that. The more I ponder things like gender and sexual orientation though, the more I feel like bickering and debating over pointless labels is completely counter-intuitive. Nobody truly fits 100% into the boxes of male, female, gay, straight, etc. I wish we could just evaluate people on an individual bases and say "this is person X, these are their characteristics, this is what they like and this is how they are." I'm not a fan of people being told what they ought to like and how they're expected to behave because of the set of equipment they were born with, or which set of equipment they wish they had for that matter. That's easier said than done though, we all know how much people love their labels, categories, and black and white issues. Uncertainty and ambiguity make humans uncomfortable by nature.

Edited February 27, 2016 by MuttButt

[kazooie]

6 minutes ago, Saxon said:

Don't believe that the twin towers was an inside job? Well, then you're accusing the truthers of being delusional! How unfair, the burden of proof isn't on them to show that their conspiracy theory is right. It's on your to show that they're deluded. 

you know, unlike gender identity, 9/11 isn't a social belief that many people hold

 

its an actual event that actually happened

 

gender identity: never forget

[MuttButt]

1 minute ago, Saxon said:

Surely plenty of people do. I'm a male. I'm not a female. I fit into the 'being a man' box 100%. 

Lol, are we still on the whole "gender and sex are the same thing" debate? For reals? 

[Sarcastic Coffeecup]

Hi, I am Coffee and I am a cishet male. Pls no hate.

[kazooie]

4 minutes ago, Saxon said:

You're missing the point. The burden of proof is on a claim, not on the skeptic for believing that the claimant is mistaken or deluded. 

gender identity is less like a catastrophic event that actually happened and more like the existence of God or whatever

it's not a physical thing, its an idea

Edited February 27, 2016 by kazooie

[Sidewalk Surfboard]

This thread is a mess

[MuttButt]

11 minutes ago, Saxon said:

You're missing the point. The burden of proof is on a claim, not on the skeptic for believing that the claimant is mistaken or deluded. 

 

This is the 'gender mega thread' so it's not exactly surprising that that's the topic du jour, is it? 

"Gender is defined as a set of characteristics or traits that are associated with a certain biological sex (male/female). These characteristics are generally referred to as “masculine” or “feminine.”"

Males can possess feminine characteristics, and females can possess masculine characteristics. This isn't that hard to wrap your head around. I'm not even making some kind of deep philosophical argument here, i'm literally just pointing out the definition of the word "gender" according to the vast majority of paychologists, social scientists, and anybody else who studies this shit for a living. 

 

It's true that gender is not entirely a social construct, but it's absurd to believe that it is some kind of absolute. I don't suppose you also believe that all girls are biologically programmed to love dresses, pink, and want to spend their days cooking, cleaning, and pumping out babies for a man? I hope you don't, because it is demonstrably untrue.

Edited February 27, 2016 by MuttButt
holy mother of spelling errors today

[MuttButt]

4 minutes ago, Saxon said:

I think that gender identity is an intrinsic psychological phenomenon. 

You're talking about gender roles though- what is perceived as a masculine or feminine pursuit, and I agree that these vary between cultures and that not everybody is an archetypal man or woman by those standards. 

That is true, although I would also argue that the only reason that gender identity is even a thing is because of the values and characteristics ascribed to the biological sexes by gender roles.

[paroapockinroo]

38 minutes ago, Saxon said:

So I'm not actually an American, by the way. 

I think there's a difference between not identifying with imposed gender roles (which is just non-conformity), and not identifying as your physical sex- and believing that inside you're the opposite sex. 

The first one isn't any form of transgender and depends on culture, while the second one is transgender and would exist regardless of cultural norms about gender. 

 

I had no idea you weren't American, sorry for assuming though

Yeah that's true... I guess it all just gets a bit messy though because not all transgender people want to change their sex / their bodies, its just moreso they have to in order to fit into society. But there are also trans people whose root issues stem from their body dysphoria. Then there are nonbinary people, who don't really get recognized because it's assumed they have to be transgender in order to feel some kind of disconnect from their physical / social gender. Some nonbinary people have physical discomfort with their sex but don't entirely gravitate away from their gender, some aren't physically uncomfortable with their sex but are so deeply upset by social bounds that they just want nothing to do with them and don't feel they can connect with others who do. It's all kind of confusing. 

Edited February 27, 2016 by paroapockinroo

[paroapockinroo]

1 minute ago, Saxon said:

That's incompatible with the observation of sex-ambiguous brain architectures in transgender people. 

This shows that it is brain architecture which generates gender identity. 

Many of the values and characteristics associated with the different genders likely follow from biological sex and gender identity, or just happen to be spuriously associated with it, rather than being the cause of gender identity. 

 

 

So shouldn't it be possible that there be a brain architecture of those who sort of have no ingrained notion of gender, or a very mixed view of it? Or that it could be the same as a transgender individual, though without there being negative correlation towards biological sex in said persons brain?

[Käpt'n]

My gender is male and I sexually identify as an attack helicopter.

But in all honesty, I have a pretty lax view on gender. One forum where I post regularly severely pisses me off in that regard, they only see people by their biological gender and won't acknowledge that there are certain conditions that literally put someone into the wrong body.
We were talking about trans people in public bathrooms and public showers. They kept insisting that trans people should always go to the rooms designated for the respective biological genders.
Yeah, because women would LOVE to have this guy in their shower room at a public pool:

(Who knows, maybe they would... I mean DAMN! Look at him! :D)

Their argument? "Who cares as long as the majority gets what they want."
I really need to stop posting there...

[willow]

2 minutes ago, Käpt'n said:

My gender is male and I sexually identify as an attack helicopter.

But in all honesty, I have a pretty lax view on gender. One forum where I post regularly severely pisses me off in that regard, they only see people by their biological gender and won't acknowledge that there are certain conditions that literally put someone into the wrong body.
We were talking about trans people in public bathrooms and public showers. They kept insisting that trans people should always go to the rooms designated for the respective biological genders.
Yeah, because women would LOVE to have this guy in their shower room at a public pool:

(Who knows, maybe they would... I mean DAMN! Look at him! :D)

Their argument? "Who cares as long as the majority gets what they want."
I really need to stop posting there...

Wasn't he just on the cover of Men's Health Germany? 

[Vallium]

7 minutes ago, Saxon said:

I doubt that 'nonbinary' people have some analogous biological explanation, and I suspect they are people who just don't happen to enjoy the archetypal male or female things, and mistake this as an indication that they're don't belong to their physical sex, when they do, they just don't conform to constrictive societal expectations. 

I havent been following the thread since its been going really fast but this is a good point. I would guess that words like 'genderfluid', 'agender', and 'genderqueer' can be reclassified as descriptors of gender role misidentification rather than actual gender identities

[Käpt'n]

7 minutes ago, willow said:

Wasn't he just on the cover of Men's Health Germany? 

No idea! I don't really care much about magazines.

[willow]

22 minutes ago, Käpt'n said:

No idea! I don't really care much about magazines.

I don't either but I saw an article about some transguy being on a German magazine 

[Clove Darkwave]

Isn't it amazingly selfish that some people insist they know what's best for Trans people?

Take that selfishness and apply it; Worry about yourself.

[Wrecker]

Hang on a minute, checking privilege or something like that.