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Snipers take out cops at Dallas protest

LowPitchFart

By LowPitchFart,
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TrishaCat
TrishaCat

Events like this frustrate and remind me how reactionary most people are. People like to use major events as justification for their beliefs, for their hatred of others, and finally such weakness has

Punnchy
Punnchy

This type of behavior and these actions have to stop, what good does killing these officers do? It only creates more hate, more distrust.

DrGravitas
DrGravitas

An ideal is a concept that's worth striving for, even knowing full well that it can't be fully realized. Ideals are the heart of any justice system and the concept of a fair trial is among our most sa

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LowPitchFart Newbie

LowPitchFart

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1 hour ago, Sylver said:

Interestingly, it's not difficult to imagine the two factions starting a war; police versus anti-police (I'd say black people, but I assume some white people also support it).

It could be called, "The Race War"

I think we're just about at that point.

 

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TrishaCat Contributor

TrishaCat

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Events like this frustrate and remind me how reactionary most people are. People like to use major events as justification for their beliefs, for their hatred of others, and finally such weakness has manifested itself into a major event itself.

I hope this results in people realizing that seeing bad things happen on the news involving a group of people doesn't justify hatred and attacks on said groups of people.

No one should die. No one deserves hate. It is possible to want police officers to be held to a high standard while not actively hating them and wanting them dead.

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Ricky Newbie

Ricky

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1 minute ago, Enigma said:

I'm pretty sure you are wrong. Ice Cube is a family man that makes horrible movies, straight outta Hollywood.

He *was* pretty horrible as an actor.

2 minutes ago, Enigma said:

But seriously. Black lives matter. Cops, not so much?

Hey, it's their job. They know the risks :V

Obviously race has nothing to do with it, outside from sensationalism.

If it was a white person, it may not have been noticed as readily.

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Enigma Newbie

Enigma

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3 minutes ago, Ricky said:

He *was* pretty horrible as an actor.

*Is. (See Ride Along 2)

5 minutes ago, Ricky said:

Hey, it's their job. They know the risks :V

Obviously race has nothing to do with it, outside from sensationalism.

If it was a white person, it may not have been noticed as readily.

Maybe people should stop breaking the law...

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Ricky Newbie

Ricky

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Just now, Enigma said:

*Is. (See Ride Along 2)

God dammit >:c

Just now, Enigma said:

Maybe people should stop breaking the law...

Let's ignore the obvious fact that ideal situations like this don't exist. Do you know how BORING life would be if that were the case? Well, maybe not, some people really do go through life not breaking any laws aside from minor infractions like speeding. I have a feeling those are the same people who go through college and get a four year degree, then get a 9-5 job where they work every day of their lives until they go through a midlife crisis and reflect on their empty vacuum of an existence. Then they buy a whole bunch of shit to try and gain some sense of fulfillment, and when that doesn't work they become alcoholics and eventually die.

Besides, Judas Priest said it was cool:

 

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Enigma Newbie

Enigma

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2 minutes ago, Ricky said:

God dammit >:c

Let's ignore the obvious fact that ideal situations like this don't exist. Do you know how BORING life would be if that were the case? Well, maybe not, some people really do go through life not breaking any laws aside from minor infractions like speeding. I have a feeling those are the same people who go through college and get a four year degree, then get a 9-5 job where they work every day of their lives until they go through a midlife crisis and reflect on their empty vacuum of an existence. Then they buy a whole bunch of shit to try and gain some sense of fulfillment, and when that doesn't work they become alcoholics and eventually die.

Besides, Judas Priest said it was cool:

 

Your view is two dimensional. Laws are different depending where you go and there are so many grey areas in law too. You don't have to break it to exploit it. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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Ricky Newbie

Ricky

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1 minute ago, Enigma said:

Laws are different depending where you go and there are so many grey areas in law too. You don't have to break it to exploit it. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Depending on the particular laws then yeah, I agree.

I don't expect most people to just be able to do this, however.

If such an obvious loophole in the law were to exist, it would have been fixed by now, depending on the severity.

If you are an expert in something, you often have information others don't.

For example, I could tell you how to make/obtain legal forms of most illegal drugs that the vast majority of people have never heard of.

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AshleyAshes Newbie

AshleyAshes

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36 minutes ago, Mikazuki Marazhu said:

I heard about this Black Lives Matter movement

I heard they barricaded a gay parade until they comply to their demand to support BLM while doing the parade.

 

Like seriously... I'm about to turn racist here

Those were queer  people of color, who wanted Pride Toronto to a lot more resources to queer PoC causes at Toronto Pride.  So it was a gay parade and gay protestors, because you can be black AND queer.  Crazy concept, I know.

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Mikazuki Marazhu Newbie

Mikazuki Marazhu

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8 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

Those were queer  people of color, who wanted Pride Toronto to a lot more resources to queer PoC causes at Toronto Pride.  So it was a gay parade and gay protestors, because you can be black AND queer.  Crazy concept, I know.

I don't mind Queer PoC Parade, what I do mind is them ungracefully halting an ongoing parade when they could've butt in before it all started.

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AshleyAshes Newbie

AshleyAshes

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23 minutes ago, Mikazuki Marazhu said:

I don't mind Queer PoC Parade, what I do mind is them ungracefully halting an ongoing parade when they could've butt in before it all started.

Its pretty common to get action taken. The parades see their usual internal protests.  1992s Toronto pride parade was halted by AIDS/HIV demanding that pride Toronto put more focus on the AIDS crisis.  I believe tgey did a die in that year.  The trans march has seen routine  protests from other trans groups.

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Another Ampers& Newbie

Another Ampers&

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5 hours ago, Enigma said:

But seriously. Black lives matter. Cops, not so much?

Given that the protest was so peaceful that police can be seen posing in pictures with protesters, I think it's a little imprudent to assume that the people shooting were part of that protest

I mean, we're talking about a group whose main slogan is "hands up, don't shoot" here

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Another Ampers& Newbie

Another Ampers&

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4 minutes ago, LowPitchFart said:

They've also called for the killing of cops at some protests and on Twitter.

I think it's very dangerous to suggest something like this without citation

especially given the group you're accusing is already disproportionately targeted by the police for extrajudicial killing

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Enigma Newbie

Enigma

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36 minutes ago, Another Ampers& said:

Given that the protest was so peaceful that police can be seen posing in pictures with protesters, I think it's a little imprudent to assume that the people shooting were part of that protest

I mean, we're talking about a group whose main slogan is "hands up, don't shoot" here

I think it is imprudent to not fully research the topic and to talk like you were there. We don't know if they were part of the protest or not, yet.

 

16 minutes ago, Another Ampers& said:

I think it's very dangerous to suggest something like this without citation

especially given the group you're accusing is already disproportionately targeted by the police for extrajudicial killing

I agree cops are quick to shoot, but how many of those people broke the law?

Edit: plenty of these people were threatening the police with weapons of their own.

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Another Ampers& Newbie

Another Ampers&

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7 minutes ago, Enigma said:

I think it is imprudent to not fully research the topic and to talk like you were there. We don't know if they were part of the protest or not, yet.

 

I agree cops are quick to shoot, but how many of those people broke the law?

- that's my point friend. We don't know if they were members of the protest or not and frankly it's easier to assume they weren't

- whether you think the death penalty is ever justified or not, we can all agree that A) receiving a death sentence for crimes such as selling CDs or Cigarettes without a business licence, or driving with a broken tail light is most definitely excessive and B) the death penalty should only ever be administered after a fair trial, which extrajudicial killings by definition do not entail

content warning for some of those articles, which contain videos of the victims in their last moments and/or being killed

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Enigma Newbie

Enigma

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1 minute ago, Another Ampers& said:

- that's my point friend

- whether you think the death penalty is ever justified or not, we can all agree that A) receiving a death sentence for crimes such as selling CDs or Cigarettes without a business licence, or driving with a broken tail light is most definitely excessive and B) the death penalty should only ever be administered after a fair trial, which extrajudicial killings by definition do not entail

content warning for some of those articles, which contain videos of the victims in their last moments and/or being killed

Fair trial? That is nearly impossible to achieve, sadly.

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DrGravitas Newbie

DrGravitas

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7 minutes ago, Enigma said:

Fair trial? That is nearly impossible to achieve, sadly.

An ideal is a concept that's worth striving for, even knowing full well that it can't be fully realized. Ideals are the heart of any justice system and the concept of a fair trial is among our most sacred. The inability to reach its perfection neither means it should be discarded, nor that reaching the conclusion dependent (eg here a death sentence) upon it must not happen without it.

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Another Ampers& Newbie

Another Ampers&

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Just now, Enigma said:

Fair trial? That is nearly impossible to achieve, sadly.

I don't mean to sound hostile but this statement is literally meaningless like we can pontificate and gaze at our navels over how it's impossible to know for sure whether a person is guilty or not and how there's no real objective "fair trial" but like

what does that mean in relation to the current discussion

Like we live in a world where armed white men threatening and committing violence can somehow be taken into trial unharmed, even receive police protection leading up to the trial, but a black man being THOUGHT to POSSIBLY have a gun is an instant death sentence

that's 9 separate links btw

Like what on earth could "[a fair trial is] nearly impossible to achieve" possibly even mean in this context

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Enigma Newbie

Enigma

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12 minutes ago, Another Ampers& said:

I don't mean to sound hostile but this statement is literally meaningless like we can pontificate and gaze at our navels over how it's impossible to know for sure whether a person is guilty or not and how there's no real objective "fair trial" but like

what does that mean in relation to the current discussion

Like we live in a world where armed white men threatening and committing violence can somehow be taken into trial unharmed, even receive police protection leading up to the trial, but a black man being THOUGHT to POSSIBLY have a gun is an instant death sentence

that's 9 separate links btw

Like what on earth could "[a fair trial is] nearly impossible to achieve" possibly even mean in this context

What I meant is that courts can be just as biased against people of color as cops can. You do not sound hostile, just very focused on a singular point. 

I get your point and I agree for the most part. All of your links and counting them out, "btw", makes you seem like.. *shrug*

Debate with someone who cares more. 

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Hux Newbie

Hux

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11 minutes ago, Mikazuki Marazhu said:

Why can't you Americans just give up your guns, fuck your second amendment. Don't get me started with your excuse about "It's not the guns, it's the people"

Because gun control is just a bandage that hides the underlying issues leading to gun violence. The overwhelming majority of legal gun owners aren't violent and aren't violent. Instead talking about guns, let's talking about why a small minority of gun owners, mostly illegitimate ones, are doing things like this.

"Don't get me started with your excuse about "It's not the guns, it's the people"

Sorry, but it is the people. Like it or not, guns are inanimate objects with no free will. They don't leave their racks on the dead of night to kill people, but assholes with guns do. Guns don't kill people- they're just used to kill people.

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Rukh Whitefang Newbie

Rukh Whitefang

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28 minutes ago, Mikazuki Marazhu said:

Why can't you Americans just give up your guns, fuck your second amendment. Don't get me started with your excuse about "It's not the guns, it's the people"

Why don't people give up vehicles? Because those kill lots of people every year too.

The other week a man intentionally drove a truck into 9 people on bicycles, killed half of them. Should we start revoking driving licenses? Oh wait we do, and people still drive illegally... 

I am a legal gun owner having passed government background checks, written under oath that I have no mental illness, nor committed any crimes. Why should I give up my firearms?

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willow Newbie

willow

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it's very unfortunate. too bad nothing is likely to change anytime soon 

6 minutes ago, Rukh Whitefang said:

Why don't people give up vehicles? Because those kill lots of people every year too.

I've yet to kill someone with my bike tbh :v 

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Butters Newbie

Butters

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25 minutes ago, Rukh Whitefang said:

Why don't people give up vehicles? Because those kill lots of people every year too.

 

Quote

 

We do regulate how people use those though. Selt belts, driver's licenses, driving tests to get a licenses, etc. 

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Lucyfish Newbie

Lucyfish

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32 minutes ago, Rukh Whitefang said:

Why don't people give up vehicles? Because those kill lots of people every year too.

The other week a man intentionally drove a truck into 9 people on bicycles, killed half of them. Should we start revoking driving licenses? Oh wait we do, and people still drive illegally... 

I am a legal gun owner having passed government background checks, written under oath that I have no mental illness, nor committed any crimes. Why should I give up my firearms?

You shouldn't. However, we do regulate vehicles in America a HELL of a lot more than we regulate guns. I think they should be similar.

You want a gun and ammo? First, take a month long Gun Owner's Education class. Then, you take a written test to get your Gun Owner's permit. Then, have a professional teacher give you a two week long Gun Owner's Training class, where you learn how to clean, use, and properly store your firearm. Then, you take a test with a DFO (Department of Firearm Ownership) official. If you fail three times, you have to retake the written test. If you pass, you finally get your Gun Ownership license.

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Victor-933 Newbie

Victor-933

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I feel like this is going to get a lot worse before it'll get better.

This guy in Dallas, and other "retaliatory" police shootings, to me, demonstrate an underlying discontent and distrust among many communities of all demographics. There's three boxes people use to enact social change: the soap box, the ballot box, and the bullet box -- ideally, in that order.

Perhaps some people are beginning to feel that their efforts at using the first two boxes have been insufficient. Perhaps they see their "soap box", BLM, lashing out ineffectively in a thousand different directions and only making things worse. Perhaps some see their "ballot box" efforts to have been in vain.

This shooting, to me, is a worrisome symptom of a dangerous and violent undercurrent of political anger and frustration. Is it misguided? Most likely. But the facts rarely matter to most people; humans are panicky animals with deeply entrenched clannishness, and if they feel threatened or persecuted in some way they may eventually lash out. Perception, as they say, is nine-tenths of the law.

</rambling>

 

Of course, not all shootings fall under that umbrella (in fact, most don't). And, for the record, I'm definitely not agreeing with the perpetrator(s), but the actions do carry a certain degree of understandability.

 

 

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Rukh Whitefang Newbie

Rukh Whitefang

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42 minutes ago, Lucyfish said:

You shouldn't. However, we do regulate vehicles in America a HELL of a lot more than we regulate guns. I think they should be similar.

You want a gun and ammo? First, take a month long Gun Owner's Education class. Then, you take a written test to get your Gun Owner's permit. Then, have a professional teacher give you a two week long Gun Owner's Training class, where you learn how to clean, use, and properly store your firearm. Then, you take a test with a DFO (Department of Firearm Ownership) official. If you fail three times, you have to retake the written test. If you pass, you finally get your Gun Ownership license.

I can name 12 different people who all drive on a daily basis with either a suspended license or revoked license. Better yet, until you reach an elderly age your not required to retake a drivers test (unless you get caught with a dui and such). Tell me how thats regulated. Its assumed people know how to drive.

In regards to firearms in My state, in order to purchase a firearm you have to pass a federal background check, sign papers under oath indication you are not a criminal nor have a mental illness. Register the firearm (if a handgun). Its even more paperwork for a conceal carry license (which I have).

Furthermore more gun laws would NOT have prevented the Dallas police shooting. The suspect was an Army Reservist, had basic military firearms training, and had a clean record. And the rifle he used is reportedly an old soviet surplus ww2 rifle (sks).

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Hux Newbie

Hux

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54 minutes ago, Mikazuki Marazhu said:

 

OK I come to a conclusion now that amuricans can't understand life without guns.

Now if you guys don't mind, if people get killed by guns blame yourselves

Such incredible irony...

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Rukh Whitefang Newbie

Rukh Whitefang

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1 hour ago, Mikazuki Marazhu said:

 

OK I come to a conclusion now that amuricans can't understand life without guns.

Now if you guys don't mind, if people get killed by guns blame yourselves

Yes, I a law abiding citizen should turn in my firearms because that will somehow stem shootings taking place..... Yes disarm those who have done no wrong. Thats always a good idea.

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Mikazuki Marazhu Newbie

Mikazuki Marazhu

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2 minutes ago, Rukh Whitefang said:

Yes, I a law abiding citizen should turn in my firearms because that will somehow stem shootings taking place..... Yes disarm those who have done no wrong. Thats always a good idea.

I do not trust you, I don't trust strangers, I do not trust strangers to have guns...

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