Panic Attacks, mental illness

[Kellie Gator]

At first I was gonna whine about how disgusting I am as a human being but maybe I should make this more coherent or constructive. Or at least try.

I just... hate being broken, mentally ill, not functioning properly. I get panic attacks. But I'm not some kinda speech police so I won't go all bitchy and demand those TRIGGER WARNINGS, because, well, stuff that sets me off are so common and every day that it's dumb to restrict people like that.

But it's like, fuck, I didn't have this problem before 2012. I was fine with looking at porn, fine with having kinky chats, fine with openly talking about sex. But then something happened, the porn I used to look at would give me these weird fucking panic attacks, and if friends started talking about the sex they've had the same shit would happen too except I'm too embarrassed to tell them so I'd just try to hide it.

I've sorta gotten better but still have a  long way to go. Sometimes porn still bothers me, sometimes it doesn't. I never know when it will or not. I have to politely tell friends I can't talk about sex even though I HATE being some kinda speech police and restrict people like that.

I don't even know what the root of this is. Or maybe I do. A blend of gender dysphoria and my failed love life and virginity, I guess? I feel disgusted with myself a lot, especially when the panic attacks start.

But am I not making this harder than it should be? I could just be a prostitute or something except my therapist seems to say, and I agree, that I want something more, I want... some kind of love or intimacy or whatever.

Just, fuck, I'm just rambling at this point but I wanna function normally again. Not have panic attacks over erotic comics like that one time I was in a comic book store and started sweating with my heart rate going crazy and my body getting all wobbly so I can't walk straight for hours.

...this was supposed to be a short rant. I'm stoopid. tl;dr I get panic attacks over porn and sex and life fucking sucks kthxbai

[Deskai]

It could be every single thing being connected and compounded

You want some actual intimacy, but the relationships you had before may have skewed how ya view relationships overall and may view it as unfair when your previous ones went sour (though due to knowing more some of em was fine enough and ended on seemingly good terms).

Porn on the other hand I have really no clue on that, may it be that before 2012 you were fine with it maybe due to you yourself was getting porn pictures done by certain people, until it became a bit lackluster, themes didnt settle with ya, and the one person you were getting art the most from ya was losing connection to.

Sadly that will take time AND effort to resolve this issue, as you still dunno about certain things about yourself and being able to achieve them.

[FlynnCoyote]

I'm no psychologist, I just visit them now and then.

I think it's a building sense of frustration. And somehow you're blaming yourself because you perceive it as some failure on your part perhaps? This sounds like the sort of thing where you first need to come to grips with the reality that any kind of interaction between people is a two way thing, so it not going the way you hoped isn't really your fault. I remember the talk I had with my therapist about being unable to control certain elements of my life, and that it was terrifying me and shutting me down mentally. I do understand what it feels like to have these panic attacks.

In any case, I'm a non judgemental type with zero in the way of conversational inhibitions, so if you wanna talk more I'm okay with it.

 

 

 

[Kellie Gator]

It could be every single thing being connected and compounded

You want some actual intimacy, but the relationships you had before may have skewed how ya view relationships overall and may view it as unfair when your previous ones went sour (though due to knowing more some of em was fine enough and ended on seemingly good terms).

Porn on the other hand I have really no clue on that, may it be that before 2012 you were fine with it maybe due to you yourself was getting porn pictures done by certain people, until it became a bit lackluster, themes didnt settle with ya, and the one person you were getting art the most from ya was losing connection to.

Sadly that will take time AND effort to resolve this issue, as you still dunno about certain things about yourself and being able to achieve them.

I'm not entirely sure what the former has to do with panic attacks?

As for the porn thing, well, it seems everything my mind associates with sex seems to set it off so maybe porn is just a byproduct and it started sorta appearing before the whole thing with the artist you're referring to, but it certainly got worse after that, so I dunno.

Just, I look at porn and I start feeling ill and self-loathing because I'm a disgusting virgin, usually, and then the panic sets in.

I'm no psychologist, I just visit them now and then.

I think it's a building sense of frustration. And somehow you're blaming yourself because you perceive it as some failure on your part perhaps? This sounds like the sort of thing where you first need to come to grips with the reality that any kind of interaction between people is a two way thing, so it not going the way you hoped isn't really your fault. I remember the talk I had with my therapist about being unable to control certain elements of my life, and that it was terrifying me and shutting me down mentally. I do understand what it feels like to have these panic attacks.

In any case, I'm a non judgemental type with zero in the way of conversational inhibitions, so if you wanna talk more I'm okay with it.

 

 

 

I do often feel like a failure, yes. I haven't had a single functioning relationship and the people I dated never had sex with me or even touched me so I guess that adds into it.

I also used to be kinda promiscuous online 'cause I figured that would get guys to like me but ultimately all I turned out to be good for was fap material.

[Kaedal]

I'm no psychologist, I just visit them now and then.

Just want to say this; fuck psychologists. They make you look at a piece of paper, tell them what you see, and then they tell you everything that's wrong with you. And they're wrong. They're always fucking wrong. Just because you see a butterfly when other people see an elephant isn't a sign that you're delusional. I've had more luck with psychiatrists, since they actually seem to focus on the biological reason for your anxiety rather than trying to find some other, deeper metaphysical meaning to it.

 

On topic, our opinions and feelings on certain matters are influenced by past experiences. Insecurity, our own self-image and self-esteem all affect how we respond to stimuli and stuff like porn. I know I've certainly had periods where I was completely turned off by porn because of events in my own life. These periods can last for a long time, if the cause isn't found or understood. 

I've found "fake it till you make it" is a very good way of handling problems. Respect yourself. Be awesome. Even if you don't really respect yourself or feel awesome, just fake it. Act like you do. Act like you are. Don't be a jerk, just appear secure in yourself and your own essence of awesome. 

[Ratmomma]

Just want to say this; fuck psychologists. They make you look at a piece of paper, tell them what you see, and then they tell you everything that's wrong with you. And they're wrong. They're always fucking wrong. Just because you see a butterfly when other people see an elephant isn't a sign that you're delusional. I've had more luck with psychiatrists, since they actually seem to focus on the biological reason for your anxiety rather than trying to find some other, deeper metaphysical meaning to it.

 

On topic, our opinions and feelings on certain matters are influenced by past experiences. Insecurity, our own self-image and self-esteem all affect how we respond to stimuli and stuff like porn. I know I've certainly had periods where I was completely turned off by porn because of events in my own life. These periods can last for a long time, if the cause isn't found or understood. 

I've found "fake it till you make it" is a very good way of handling problems. Respect yourself. Be awesome. Even if you don't really respect yourself or feel awesome, just fake it. Act like you do. Act like you are. Don't be a jerk, just appear secure in yourself and your own essence of awesome. 

I've not had to deal with a psychologist yet, only psychiatrists.

But yeah, 'fake it til you make it' is an excellent way of getting thru the day when you're surrounded by people that either don't understand or don't care. That's the only way I can make it thru every single day I have to work. I probably shouldn't be working period, but I do anyway so I can support my ratties and this apartment. I'm silently waiting for when the day comes, again (major freak outs happen at least 1-2 times a year), that I completely implode and either destroy things in the apt (probably won't happen), or take my feels out on my body (probably will happen).

[FlynnCoyote]

Just want to say this; fuck psychologists. They make you look at a piece of paper, tell them what you see, and then they tell you everything that's wrong with you. And they're wrong. They're always fucking wrong. Just because you see a butterfly when other people see an elephant isn't a sign that you're delusional. I've had more luck with psychiatrists, since they actually seem to focus on the biological reason for your anxiety rather than trying to find some other, deeper metaphysical meaning to it.

 

Nope. My psychologist was entirely about the neural and biological aspects of why my anxiety was happening and what triggered it. My brother is seeing one as well for his own issues and it's helping him a lot.

[Kaedal]

Nope. My psychologist was entirely about the neural and biological aspects of why my anxiety was happening and what triggered it. My brother is seeing one as well for his own issues and it's helping him a lot.

That's positive, at least. I was assigned one to work with me on my anxiety, and she didn't really seem to care at all about what i said, as much as where my eyes were and how I said it. She also had me do a shit ton of weird tests.

[Charrio]

I'm in this exact same boat, I can't even read relationship comics or sex without cringing or wanting to stop and leave feelings racing inside me.

I used to be able to draw adult stuff fine, but not now.

 

I figure it's my own demons reminding me what I can't have so hurts.

[Kellie Gator]

I feel dumb now for not knowing the difference between psychologists and psychiatrists 'cause I'm Swedish. >w>

I'm also not sure I fully get "fake it until you make it" or how it's supposed to change how I feel. Sorry if that's rude of me to say, just trying to understand.

[Wolflich]

I'm also not sure I fully get "fake it until you make it" or how it's supposed to change how I feel. Sorry if that's rude of me to say, just trying to understand.

I was going to explain but it turns out it has a wikipedia article.

[Lucyfish]

Let's panic and freak out about life together

[Ayattar]

Sometimes I feel like I could as well just record myself and send you a tape, instead of repeating same things again and again, only in a slightly different manner.

It makes me feel hopeless and unhelpful.

[Kellie Gator]

I was going to explain but it turns out it has a wikipedia article.

...feels like that's what I've been trying to do this whole time, though. I do the same life routines I always do.

Let's panic and freak out about life together

Gotcha, I'll harass you on Skype later.~

Sometimes I feel like I could as well just record myself and send you a tape, instead of repeating same things again and again, only in a slightly different manner.

It makes me feel hopeless and unhelpful.

It's not your fault, it's mine. My inability to properly change my train of thought and get better. Yer not useless, buddy.

[Fantasma]

There is a connection between your thoughts, feelings, and external behavior.

It actually works both ways, your external behavior can help guide your internal feelings (such as acting happy actually making you happy).

 

[Kellie Gator]

There is a connection between your thoughts, feelings, and external behavior.

It actually works both ways, your external behavior can help guide your internal feelings (such as acting happy actually making you happy).

 

But I always act happy, especially in public and shit 'cause I feel awkward about talking about my feelings and such.

All this acting takes me nowhere.

[MissFleece]

But I always act happy, especially in public and shit 'cause I feel awkward about talking about my feelings and such.

All this acting takes me nowhere.

"but you SEEM fine! You were so happy yesterday!"

 (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

[Jtrekkie]

You are still seeing someone still, aren't you? 

[Bloodshot_Eyes]

But I always act happy, especially in public and shit 'cause I feel awkward about talking about my feelings and such.

All this acting takes me nowhere.

I'd say stop acting happy when you're by yourself. It's the safest place to have emotions that aren't necessarily socially acceptable.

I'm not saying don't be happy, but we tend to react to our emotions in one or two ways. Anxiety, when we resist the way we feel; and relief when we accept the way we feel. We tend to resist negative emotions around people because people tend to be resistant to those negative emotions. Hence why a lot of people get anxiety and panic attacks in public.

When you're by yourself, there's no one but yourself to judge the emotional state you're in. And you're allowed to feel whatever emotions (negative or positive) feel like relief until it no longer feels like relief. Then you can go on to the next emotion you feel. Each one releasing the pressure and stress of holding it in. Even allowing yourself to feel anxiety itself can lessen your anxiety, comparative to resisting it. 

Plus going through this with yourself can help you word it better for when you are comfortable sharing your emotions with others. Emotions are fairly nebulous until we attach concepts and meaning to them. Navigating them is a bitch and a half, and most people won't be arsed to for themselves let alone others . Having a nice neat map of what makes you tick is a lot more presentable than a soupy mess of "wtf is this?".

[Summercat]

I should be on meds. Depression, Anxiety, and ADHD.

...I'm not really on meds currently. And I've gotten really good at handling panic attacks, now that I know what they are. As opposed to one furry con when paramedics took me out on a stretcher because I thought I was having a heart attack. Nope. panic attack.

[#00Buck]

So you get panic attacks from watching porn?

Uh...

Okay...

Thanks for sharing?

[Kellie Gator]

You are still seeing someone still, aren't you? 

You mean my therapist? Yeah.

I'd say stop acting happy when you're by yourself. It's the safest place to have emotions that aren't necessarily socially acceptable.

I'm not saying don't be happy, but we tend to react to our emotions in one or two ways. Anxiety, when we resist the way we feel; and relief when we accept the way we feel. We tend to resist negative emotions around people because people tend to be resistant to those negative emotions. Hence why a lot of people get anxiety and panic attacks in public.

When you're by yourself, there's no one but yourself to judge the emotional state you're in. And you're allowed to feel whatever emotions (negative or positive) feel like relief until it no longer feels like relief. Then you can go on to the next emotion you feel. Each one releasing the pressure and stress of holding it in. Even allowing yourself to feel anxiety itself can lessen your anxiety, comparative to resisting it. 

Plus going through this with yourself can help you word it better for when you are comfortable sharing your emotions with others. Emotions are fairly nebulous until we attach concepts and meaning to them. Navigating them is a bitch and a half, and most people won't be arsed to for themselves let alone others . Having a nice neat map of what makes you tick is a lot more presentable than a soupy mess of "wtf is this?".

I'm having doubts about this. I know where you're coming from but often I just feel like my expiration date has passed and that I just want to die because I see no end to my suffering. Should I accept my feelings of hopelessness, my wish for death?

So you get panic attacks from watching porn?

Uh...

Okay...

Thanks for sharing?

This was a rant about panic attacks, as the title said, and my panic attacks just embarrassingly enough happen to be linked to that, but not JUST that.

Don't be a dick.

[Lucyfish]

I wish it was as easy as wishing your panic away. I'm flipping my shit right now and I would kill for this anxiety to go away.

[#00Buck]

Blub... Glub...

Porno panic!

[Kellie Gator]

Blub... Glub...

Porno panic!

I wanna know if there's a porno movie with this name. :3c

[Bloodshot_Eyes]

I'm having doubts about this. I know where you're coming from but often I just feel like my expiration date has passed and that I just want to die because I see no end to my suffering. Should I accept my feelings of hopelessness, my wish for death?

Yes.

 Fighting anything is a state of hopelessness is futile. The state implies that you feel trapped with no way out. Any action against it is self defeating, in the sense that you already feel you can't do anything about the situation you're trapped in. Hopelessness will tint everything with the belief that there's no way out. It's a state of resistance to what is. Letting go of the resistance to the state you're in will make it feel like less of an entrapment, cause let's face it; in a state of hopelessness the only thing you really feel you have the power to do is surrender. This state of allowing is the state that will allow you to see what you can change rather than focusing on the things you can't. 

Hopelessness is like quicksand. The more you fight it, the faster you sink. When you stop fighting it you're left with the awareness that it's denser than you and you float. 

[Troj]

Just want to say this; fuck psychologists. They make you look at a piece of paper, tell them what you see, and then they tell you everything that's wrong with you. And they're wrong. They're always fucking wrong. Just because you see a butterfly when other people see an elephant isn't a sign that you're delusional. I've had more luck with psychiatrists, since they actually seem to focus on the biological reason for your anxiety rather than trying to find some other, deeper metaphysical meaning to it.

Nope, nope, nope. 

Only two of the Rorschach's subscales have well-established validity for diagnosing particular issues, as I recall, so any psychologist who relies on the Rorschach for their diagnosis is grossly out-of-step with modern practices and research.

Myself, I've only administered the Rorschach once as part of a larger battery of tests.

My beef with psychiatrists is that they typically only have 15 minutes to see you, and they often focus on the neurobiological reason for your anxiety at the exclusion of all other factors.

If you're sad or anxious because of a trauma you suffered or a little false story you keep telling yourself, a pill will typically only mask that--if you're prescribed the right one, that is--not resolve it. A pill by itself can't help you to make sense of what you're going through, and why it might be happening.

By itself, no pill yet can fix a problem like poor self-esteem, procrastination, lack of purpose or direction in life, blaming others for your problems, not knowing how to do X or Y, or any of the other dozens upon dozens of things people come to therapy to figure out.

This is definitely the sort of problem that therapy + medication is ideal for.

Sorry you're going through this, Kellie. I hope your therapist can help. Have they done any mindfulness exercises with you? Or thought records? These two tools are often helpful.

Mindfulness exercises can help you to notice and distance yourself emotionally from the various aspects of your panic, while thought records can help you to identify the "story" or the statements that could be fueling your panic.

Exposure therapy is the main technique that is used for panic and phobias, because exposure to the negative stimulus teaches the brain that the fear is tolerable, survivable, and temporary.

 

Edited October 3, 2015 by Troj

[Summercat]

Yes.

 Fighting anything is a state of hopelessness is futile. The state implies that you feel trapped with no way out. Any action against it is self defeating, in the sense that you already feel you can't do anything about the situation you're trapped in. Hopelessness will tint everything with the belief that there's no way out. It's a state of resistance to what is. Letting go of the resistance to the state you're in will make it feel like less of an entrapment, cause let's face it; in a state of hopelessness the only thing you really feel you have the power to do is surrender. This state of allowing is the state that will allow you to see what you can change rather than focusing on the things you can't. 

Hopelessness is like quicksand. The more you fight it, the faster you sink. When you stop fighting it you're left with the awareness that it's denser than you and you float. 

Ah, feedback loops are fun.

Getting angry that you can't do something, then getting angry at your getting angry, then getting angery at that...

[Kellie Gator]

Sorry you're going through this, Kellie. I hope your therapist can help. Have they done any mindfulness exercises with you? Or thought records? These two tools are often helpful.

Mindfulness exercises can help you to notice and distance yourself emotionally from the various aspects of your panic, while thought records can help you to identify the "story" or the statements that could be fueling your panic.

Exposure therapy is the main technique that is used for panic and phobias, because exposure to the negative stimulus teaches the brain that the fear is tolerable, survivable, and temporary.

My previous therapist gave me some mindful exercises but, well, I kinda stopped doing them because I lost motivation and will to do them, which is weird. Feels like temporary fixes, nothing permanent. I suppose I only have myself to blame for that.

I don't know a lot about thought records, care to elaborate or explain more about that? Might be something I should be doing. If you mean writing down how I feel, well, I don't like writing stuff down if no one else is going to read them.

[Troj]

My previous therapist gave me some mindful exercises but, well, I kinda stopped doing them because I lost motivation and will to do them, which is weird. Feels like temporary fixes, nothing permanent. I suppose I only have myself to blame for that.

I don't know a lot about thought records, care to elaborate or explain more about that? Might be something I should be doing. If you mean writing down how I feel, well, I don't like writing stuff down if no one else is going to read them.

Mindfulness is tricky, I think. First, you have to understand the basis concepts, then you have to practice them.

Usually, with mindfulness, I do body scans with clients--where they attend to each part of their body in turn, and pay attention to how it feels--and/or learning to monitor their breath, in conjunction with "square breathing," where you imagine that your breaths are slowly drawing squares in the air.

Thought records! Here's a good example: http://www.nhshighland.scot.nhs.uk/Services/Documents/CBT Simple Thought Record.pdf

Here's another, with some additional pointers: http://www.montrealcbtpsychologist.com/userfiles/373150/file/Thought_Record_Worksheet.pdf

Basically, CBT Thought/Mood records are meant to help you tune into the implicit assumptions, beliefs, and narratives that drive your emotions in various situations. After you experience a strong emotional event, you use the record to write about what happened, how you felt at the time, what you found yourself saying to yourself in that moment, the evidence for those statements, and the evidence against them. You then note if your emotions have changed.

So, if you notice yourself feeling anxious or panicky when looking at porn, it may help to tune into the statements or sentences you find yourself saying when you start to feel anxious. Then, you can have a dialogue with those statements, in which you weigh the evidence for and the evidence against them.

In conjunction with this, I always tell clients to answer the "What if?" People will continually ask themselves "What if" questions without answering them, and just get more and more upset as they imagine this big, ill-defined disaster looming on the horizon. If you actually answer your own question, begin to seriously consider what you will do if X or Y happens, and how you could cope, you'll often notice that your anxiety will begin to subside.

Sometimes, I'll interview a client's symptoms as if they were people, and ask them what they see as their "job" or "role," and what they think would happen if they didn't do that job. (Clients can even do this themselves!) Sometimes, we'll get VERY interesting answers to those two questions, and this will allow us to probe the implicit assumptions and beliefs about the world that may be fueling the person's negative feelings and behaviors. In many cases, symptoms have a hidden adaptive purpose or intention, and discovering that underlying intention or purpose can allow you to help the person fulfill it in a different way.

[Kellie Gator]

I dunno how old a thread has to be for it to be necroing but I just... need help or something, I don't fucking know.

I don't feel normal, complete, happy.

People tell me I'm normal but I'm not. I can't feel normal. They keep trying to reassure me but I'm not seeing it. Failed 25 year old virgin who never manages to maintain stable relationship, I dunno what the fuck I'm doing wrong so I must just be naturally disgusting and unattractive. I'm way fucking past "late bloomer", I'm just gonna fucking die as a wrinkly old mess if I don't kill myself here and now which is tempting but I'm not exactly properly equipped to do so.

I try hard. Nobody loves me, nobody wants to touch me, I mean NOTHING, people treat me lower than dirty fucking basement dweller autistic whores who don't even shower and have nothing interesting about them because they play shitty fucking Blizzard games. But they're not alone like me.

I dunno where I'm going with this. I just wanna fucking die already.

[shiy0]

sooooo... you got a depressive flash again... well lets see.

first off the word normal is most likely the most manipulative lie humanity ever invented. nobody can define it and everytime it is used in a context is when people with great power want to declare something unnormal in there eyes to prepare it for abusive enslavement or elimination.mostly never questioned. so... your better off as what you are already and should not envy those who declaim themselfs normal cuz they are mostly even crazier than you.( oh i know what i talk about on that point trust me)

secondly if nobody would love you we would never have answered in any of your threads. sure we can't provide what a relationship could do but until you reach that point and beyond we are here for you.

oh and the third and last thing. atleast you already disliked your sis not like me whose contact to his big sis just got killed cuz i didnt wanted to play a fucking roleplaygame with her cuz i said no multiple times and she always ment i promised it. i didn't promise jack shit big-fuckin-stupid-sister, i said maybe you fucking basement dweller!

[Kellie Gator]

sooooo... you got a depressive flash again... well lets see.

first off the word normal is most likely the most manipulative lie humanity ever invented. nobody can define it and everytime it is used in a context is when people with great power want to declare something unnormal in there eyes to prepare it for abusive enslavement or elimination.mostly never questioned. so... your better off as what you are already and should not envy those who declaim themselfs normal cuz they are mostly even crazier than you.( oh i know what i talk about on that point trust me)

"Normal" means something, though. I just wanna be treated like everyone else, be like everyone else. Not this outsider, not feel so low and subhuman.

[Wolflich]

If we could round up all the people who are certain nobody is so alone and disliked as they are and cram them into a city somewhere... they'd just avoid each other I guess, but it's still tempting.

[shiy0]

the only time i wanted to be like everybody else was as a child and that was pretty short too actually... so if i am allowed to ask why does somebody want to be like everybody else anyway. and what does being like that even mean to you?...

selfcorrecting edit: okaaay maybe more often than that as i just remembered but the question still goes. what does it mean to you?

Edited October 18, 2015 by shiy0

[Kellie Gator]

the only time i wanted to be like everybody else was as a child and that was pretty short too actually... so if i am allowed to ask why does somebody want to be like everybody else anyway. and what does being like that even mean to you?...

I just wanna be treated like everyone else, as a equal. Not feel discriminated. Other people have functioning relationships, they get laid, they have supportive families. Not everyone but you get the idea. I don't.

I don't even get the privileges that filthy fucking basement dwellers who don't shower do. I'm treated like I'm even less than actual subhuman nerds are.

[shiy0]

if i am allowed to ask.

is this the overall feeling or are you envying your sister again ?

Edited October 18, 2015 by shiy0

[Kellie Gator]

if i am allowed to ask.

is this the overall feeling or are you envying your sister again ?

Overall, I'm afraid.

[Onnes]

I just wanna be treated like everyone else, as a equal. Not feel discriminated. Other people have functioning relationships, they get laid, they have supportive families. Not everyone but you get the idea. I don't.

I don't even get the privileges that filthy fucking basement dwellers who don't shower do. I'm treated like I'm even less than actual subhuman nerds are.

I'm sure you already realize how unhealthy this attitude is. You are measuring your own worth through some arbitrary comparison to other people. People are different, and fixating on other people like that does the opposite of help you; it leads to increased resentment and depression which feeds back into the very problems you want to solve. I've been there, done that, and have the encyclopedic knowledge of antidepressants to prove it.

[Bloodshot_Eyes]

I dunno how old a thread has to be for it to be necroing but I just... need help or something, I don't fucking know.

I don't feel normal, complete, happy.

People tell me I'm normal but I'm not. I can't feel normal. They keep trying to reassure me but I'm not seeing it. Failed 25 year old virgin who never manages to maintain stable relationship, I dunno what the fuck I'm doing wrong so I must just be naturally disgusting and unattractive. I'm way fucking past "late bloomer", I'm just gonna fucking die as a wrinkly old mess if I don't kill myself here and now which is tempting but I'm not exactly properly equipped to do so.

I try hard. Nobody loves me, nobody wants to touch me, I mean NOTHING, people treat me lower than dirty fucking basement dweller autistic whores who don't even shower and have nothing interesting about them because they play shitty fucking Blizzard games. But they're not alone like me.

I dunno where I'm going with this. I just wanna fucking die already.

I know for a fucking fact I'm not normal and am not seen as such by most anyone. 

My expectations for completeness and happiness, are projections of a belief system that may or may not serve me. But I am here, doing what I do for fuck knows why.

I have wants and desires in my life. I get jealous, I get envious. It feels like my self worth is being threatened when those feelings are triggered. The best thing to do when you have those feelings is obviously not to ignore them but to find out what they want. They are very good at telling you what you do want, it's kinda' their function. I REALLY like that last paragraph in Troj's post about interviewing symptoms, because all symptoms have a purpose. They are activated at certain times to do what they do for you.

It's really easy to get lost in the negative spiral of jealousy or envy, especially when you resist them. Jealousy is telling you what you want that you feel you've lost or are losing. Envy is telling you what you want that you feel you are unable to get. Both of these states feel like shit, because they come from a lack mentality. 

The best way to neutralize these feelings of lack is to go through your list of things of what you want, and ask yourself "how do I already have these things". It'll switch your focus from a lack mentality to something a little closer to abundance. It's nigh impossible to focus your conscious attention to both lack and abundance at the same time. Where your focus is has a profound effect on how you live and experience life. Even if your life isn't the way you want it, that just means that there is a way you want it. And that this "now" is the platform on which you can reach your desired life. 

Also keep in mind, 

>Your sister probably has a clusterfuck of bullshit and unwanted feels too, even if it doesn't look like it on the outside, even if she'd never let it show

>mindset is everything you will ever experience

>most people don't want "things" but the way those things "feel", allow for that to make your expectations for what makes a happy life a tad more nebulous.

[Troj]

Sorry, Kellie. It hurts to feel like you're on the outside looking in, and like you can't connect with other people the way others seem to. As true as these sorts of statements might be, being told that it's not just you or that you're a late bloomer just doesn't fix it, I know, because you're still left feeling like something's missing from your life.

I even still feel this way sometimes myself, even though things definitely started to improve as I got older. Part of it was that I had to work on myself to become more of the type of person others would enjoy being with, and the other part was that I had to learn to let go of wanting to impress, date, or befriend people who weren't going to appreciate and respect me. I also had to wait for other people to mature to the point where they weren't judging me or themselves using petty, stupid criteria.

[Kellie Gator]

I'm sure you already realize how unhealthy this attitude is. You are measuring your own worth through some arbitrary comparison to other people. People are different, and fixating on other people like that does the opposite of help you; it leads to increased resentment and depression which feeds back into the very problems you want to solve. I've been there, done that, and have the encyclopedic knowledge of antidepressants to prove it.

I know people are different but I feel like I am, well, TOO different, a minority, an outsider. I don't feel unique, I merely feel pushed aside.

I know for a fucking fact I'm not normal and am not seen as such by most anyone. 

My expectations for completeness and happiness, are projections of a belief system that may or may not serve me. But I am here, doing what I do for fuck knows why.

I have wants and desires in my life. I get jealous, I get envious. It feels like my self worth is being threatened when those feelings are triggered. The best thing to do when you have those feelings is obviously not to ignore them but to find out what they want. They are very good at telling you what you do want, it's kinda' their function. I REALLY like that last paragraph in Troj's post about interviewing symptoms, because all symptoms have a purpose. They are activated at certain times to do what they do for you.

It's really easy to get lost in the negative spiral of jealousy or envy, especially when you resist them. Jealousy is telling you what you want that you feel you've lost or are losing. Envy is telling you what you want that you feel you are unable to get. Both of these states feel like shit, because they come from a lack mentality. 

The best way to neutralize these feelings of lack is to go through your list of things of what you want, and ask yourself "how do I already have these things". It'll switch your focus from a lack mentality to something a little closer to abundance. It's nigh impossible to focus your conscious attention to both lack and abundance at the same time. Where your focus is has a profound effect on how you live and experience life. Even if your life isn't the way you want it, that just means that there is a way you want it. And that this "now" is the platform on which you can reach your desired life. 

Also keep in mind, 

>Your sister probably has a clusterfuck of bullshit and unwanted feels too, even if it doesn't look like it on the outside, even if she'd never let it show

>mindset is everything you will ever experience

>most people don't want "things" but the way those things "feel", allow for that to make your expectations for what makes a happy life a tad more nebulous.

What the feelings want? I'm not sure I understand what you mean and I'd appreciate if you could like, condense it and put it more simply. But I do feel like I know what I want, but that what I want is out of my control, nothing I can do or achieve on my own. Humans are free, thinking beings, I can't just make them love me, claim ownership of 'em, that'd be weird and wrong.

I want to feel loved and accepted, and hopefully just have an intimate relationship with someone.

Sorry, Kellie. It hurts to feel like you're on the outside looking in, and like you can't connect with other people the way others seem to. As true as these sorts of statements might be, being told that it's not just you or that you're a late bloomer just doesn't fix it, I know, because you're still left feeling like something's missing from your life.

I even still feel this way sometimes myself, even though things definitely started to improve as I got older. Part of it was that I had to work on myself to become more of the type of person others would enjoy being with, and the other part was that I had to learn to let go of wanting to impress, date, or befriend people who weren't going to appreciate and respect me. I also had to wait for other people to mature to the point where they weren't judging me or themselves using petty, stupid criteria.

Feels like maturing isn't working for me. I just feel older... feel like I should be married or at least have gotten laid at this point, for fuck's sake. But I can't just have sex with anyone, it has to mean something. Idfk, I just feel disgusting and subhuman.

[Zaraphayx]

Sorry, Kellie. It hurts to feel like you're on the outside looking in, and like you can't connect with other people the way others seem to. As true as these sorts of statements might be, being told that it's not just you or that you're a late bloomer just doesn't fix it, I know, because you're still left feeling like something's missing from your life.

I even still feel this way sometimes myself, even though things definitely started to improve as I got older. Part of it was that I had to work on myself to become more of the type of person others would enjoy being with, and the other part was that I had to learn to let go of wanting to impress, date, or befriend people who weren't going to appreciate and respect me. I also had to wait for other people to mature to the point where they weren't judging me or themselves using petty, stupid criteria.

The bolded parts are the most important.

Too many people feel entitled to friendship, love, and acceptance - sorry but you don't deserve shit. Everyone who has a support network of friends, family, and loved ones has it because they add value to the lives of others and don't just mope around feeling sorry for themselves and tapping their watch expecting love to come to them.

Likewise, people who recognize the value in you will quickly grow to rightly resent you if you make people who are ambivalent to you or obviously using you a priority over them.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Zaraphayx

[Troj]

Well, you've got standards, and you don't want to slip below those standards. That pretty admirable, I think, as long as you're satisfied with where you've set the bar. (Which it sounds like you're not.)

What matters is what you want, and not what society says you ought to be doing or having. Society tends to put heavy pressure on people when it comes to how and when they should fuck, marry, and have kids, and that just adds to the pressure and drama that are already inherent in trying to find somebody to love.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Troj

[Kellie Gator]

Well, you've got standards, and you don't want to slip below those standards. That pretty admirable, I think, as long as you're satisfied with where you've set the bar. (Which it sounds like you're not.)

What matters is what you want, and not what society says you ought to be doing or having. Society tends to put heavy pressure on people when it comes to how and when they should fuck, marry, and have kids, and that just adds to the pressure and drama that are already inherent in trying to find somebody to love.

I guess I have no one to blame at myself. I look at others, then myself and wonder "what the fuck is wrong with me?"

That and I suppose I've had many chances in the past, I did have three short-lived online relationships. But nothing went anywhere, I just kept being a failure who kept ending up with abusers who ultimately never wanted me in the first place.

[Bloodshot_Eyes]

What the feelings want? I'm not sure I understand what you mean and I'd appreciate if you could like, condense it and put it more simply. But I do feel like I know what I want, but that what I want is out of my control, nothing I can do or achieve on my own. Humans are free, thinking beings, I can't just make them love me, claim ownership of 'em, that'd be weird and wrong.

 

What feelings "want" is really more of a metaphor. 

Our feelings are our reactions to the implications we assume when we have an experience. What the feelings "want" is to be an accurate representation of the way you feel about your perceived condition. For example, feelings of shame are attempts to keep us "good" enough to interact with others based on our perceptions and projections of what others think about us and therefor treat us. Emotions are the feedback system of our perception; negative emotions are feedback representative of meanings, perceptions, and beliefs that limit you. 

All we really have control of is our perception and what we do with it in the now. In the now we can create peace, or anxiety. Trying to control a circumstance that is out of your control is going to be anxiety. Trying to change the way you feel directly is going to be met with anxiety; Acknowledging the belief system that creates that emotion is going to free yourself to be able to change that perception into something that serves to empower you instead of limiting you. But first it has to be noticed. In being acknowledged it has served its purpose; to notify you of the reality you perceive. 

The only thing keeping you from what you want is the belief that you can't have it without taking it from someone. Changing that belief will change your perception to include people that would love you for you, without forcing them. 

Now this belief obviously feels true or else you wouldn't believe it as reality. So take the time not only to shoot holes in the logic of your old beliefs but to look for proof of the belief you'd rather hold. Eventually the new belief will feel more believable than the old one and it will become your reality. Even if this doesn't net you a boyfriend straight away, you'll feel a hell of a lot better than you do now because your thoughts will be centered around your new belief system.

[Onnes]

I know people are different but I feel like I am, well, TOO different, a minority, an outsider. I don't feel unique, I merely feel pushed aside.

 

I don't think that is a particularly unusual condition though. I mean look at these forums. You could probably assume everyone here is, at least in many respects, an "outsider" and largely be right. The real question is, what can you do about it? You can't reroll your life, there's no way to start again from the beginning as a new person. All you can do is start from your present condition and ask what actions will make your life better. Pursue careers, pursue hobbies, socialize with those around you, just do whatever you can to keep moving forward. Perhaps the most pernicious part of depression is that constant sense that progress is nonexistent.

[Kellie Gator]

The bolded parts are the most important.
Too many people feel entitled to friendship, love, and acceptance - sorry but you don't deserve shit. Everyone who has a support network of friends, family, and loved ones has it because they add value to the lives of others and don't just mope around feeling sorry for themselves and tapping their watch expecting love to come to them.

Likewise, people who recognize the value in you will quickly grow to rightly resent you if you make people who are ambivalent to you or obviously using you a priority over them.

I missed this post. Oops.

I always get the impression I add some kind of value in others... I know a lot of people who "like" me and like being friends with me, since I don't mope around near, well, everyone.

The part I bolded, though... you might have a point there. Gives me more reasons to make me wonder if something's wrong with me. I have to admit I know some who wanted to have me as a girlfriend but the weird and frustrating part is that the only people who want to have that kind of relationship with me is people I really don't have any feelings for whatsoever. It's like, I've never really had anything completely mutual, someone who liked me that I liked, too.

Some say I should give these people who like me a shot anyway but I don't fucking know. I was desperate once already and dated someone I didn't like as much as I told myself I did. He was an abuser and left me emotionally scarred for life just like one of the girlfriends I had before him. Never again, I don't wanna put myself in that position again, FUCK desperation.

I dunno what's wrong with me. I keep falling for the wrong people.

What feelings "want" is really more of a metaphor. 

Our feelings are our reactions to the implications we assume when we have an experience. What the feelings "want" is to be an accurate representation of the way you feel about your perceived condition. For example, feelings of shame are attempts to keep us "good" enough to interact with others based on our perceptions and projections of what others think about us and therefor treat us. Emotions are the feedback system of our perception; negative emotions are feedback representative of meanings, perceptions, and beliefs that limit you. 

All we really have control of is our perception and what we do with it in the now. In the now we can create peace, or anxiety. Trying to control a circumstance that is out of your control is going to be anxiety. Trying to change the way you feel directly is going to be met with anxiety; Acknowledging the belief system that creates that emotion is going to free yourself to be able to change that perception into something that serves to empower you instead of limiting you. But first it has to be noticed. In being acknowledged it has served its purpose; to notify you of the reality you perceive. 

The only thing keeping you from what you want is the belief that you can't have it without taking it from someone. Changing that belief will change your perception to include people that would love you for you, without forcing them. 

Now this belief obviously feels true or else you wouldn't believe it as reality. So take the time not only to shoot holes in the logic of your old beliefs but to look for proof of the belief you'd rather hold. Eventually the new belief will feel more believable than the old one and it will become your reality. Even if this doesn't net you a boyfriend straight away, you'll feel a hell of a lot better than you do now because your thoughts will be centered around your new belief system.

I hope I'm not rude but I'm still not sure what you want to have said. Should I just be passive about my emotions? I really don't know what acknowledging my self-loathing and wish for death will accomplish, I already know it's there.

I think I understand what you mean about my belief that I can't have what I want without taking it from someone. It's a hard mentality to let go off, because I feel like being passive and not doing anything about my situation is just going to make it worse. I don't want to live another 5-10 years if I'm going to keep being alone and a virgin, I feel like life is a risk I don't wanna take if it just means it'll be more of what it is now so frankly I would probably rather just kill myself before it's too late and my suffering becomes worse.

I hate myself for being a disgusting 25-year old virgin when people in late teens are considered "late bloomers", but what can I fucking do? I can't just fuck anything that moves, that'd be wrong.

...can someone just drop by my place and shoot me in the head, please?

[Troj]

If I may be so bold, it seems like you often don't particularly like yourself, or feel like you're worth much.

When people don't like themselves, or don't have confidence in themselves, they are more likely to grab onto anyone who'll give them the time of day.

Many people can "smell" others' poor self-image and self-esteem. Some people will react by stepping back from that person or avoiding them--and there are multiple reasons why they react like this. Some people will react with sympathy or empathy, because they see that the person is hurting. And, predators will react by going in for the kill, because they feed on insecurity and vulnerability.

The story you're telling yourself about being "disgusting" and about being defective because you're a 25-year-old virgin is feeding your sadness, despair, self-hatred, and anger, which is driving you to seek solace and comfort any way you can--for example, by clinging to people who aren't worth your time. When you continually tell yourself this story about being disgusting, defective, and bad, you give off a "scent" that draws in predatory people who prey on those who feel they're worthless and disgusting.

The objective reality is that you're a 25-year-old virgin who's been in relationships where people did and said things that hurt you.

The subjective story you're telling yourself is that this makes you disgusting and bad, because other people don't have these same problems or issues.

Ask yourself: Is this story helpful? Is it true? How is this story true? How is this story false? What are possible alternatives to this story?

Would you let your best friend or most beloved family member tell themselves a story like this?

Edited October 19, 2015 by Troj

[Bloodshot_Eyes]

I hope I'm not rude but I'm still not sure what you want to have said. Should I just be passive about my emotions? I really don't know what acknowledging my self-loathing and wish for death will accomplish, I already know it's there.

I think I understand what you mean about my belief that I can't have what I want without taking it from someone. It's a hard mentality to let go off, because I feel like being passive and not doing anything about my situation is just going to make it worse. I don't want to live another 5-10 years if I'm going to keep being alone and a virgin, I feel like life is a risk I don't wanna take if it just means it'll be more of what it is now so frankly I would probably rather just kill myself before it's too late and my suffering becomes worse.

Not rude, emotions are subtle as fuck (comparatively to matter) and most of us are only used to the manipulations of physical constructs.

I'm not saying be passive, I'm just saying don't go to war with your feelings. I'd be like trying to get water to stop coming out of a hose by attacking the water itself. 

They're there as a part of you, and when you fight them you're telling the part of yourself that cares that you don't. When those emotions are cared for, you feel it, as those aspects of you being cared for. The "reason" they (your feelings) are telling you the things they do is to tell you "it is exactly 'this' uncomfortable to hold on to this belief". 

All of this stems from a core belief (or beliefs) that you adopted somewhere along the way. If you can find it and alter it to a more comfortable belief than the emotions and thoughts that stem from it will be altered in the same way. 

Your cognitive resistance to your emotions will equal the resistance they have towards telling you what's up in their "minds". What's going on in their "minds" are the core beliefs that you construct your perception of reality around. So by releasing resistance to the emotions you can find out what they are reacting to, and alter it to a belief that is more suitable for a happy Kelly.

To alter a belief; make sure you find the root belief, (without aggressively attacking it and the feelings that react to it) find flaws in the logic, seek proof of the new belief(s) you wish to replace it with (this is important, the neural network will need a new route to follow or else they'll go back to the default route), eventually the proof of the new belief will outweigh the the "evidence" of the old belief. It might not go away completely, but it'll be significantly less effective than it used to be which will allow you to do the things the make the badass. But it's gonna be real hard to even try until you stop constantly beating yourself up over it.  

For example: if you subscribe to the belief that you're disgusting and ugly; you might look for proof of not only the falseness of this believe, but for proof of the opposite.  

The part I bolded, though... you might have a point there. Gives me more reasons to make me wonder if something's wrong with me. I have to admit I know some who wanted to have me as a girlfriend but the weird and frustrating part is that the only people who want to have that kind of relationship with me is people I really don't have any feelings for whatsoever. It's like, I've never really had anything completely mutual, someone who liked me that I liked, too.

 Nothing's "wrong", you can only show a level of love for someone that would show you a level of love equal to the level you give yourself.

Basically, any person you attract into your life will love you, as much as you love you. Otherwise, you keep them at bay because they challenge your belief system. With such an intimate encounter with a person it's shown quite intimately. 

Hence why I'm advising changing your belief system to one that encourages self worth instead of demolishing it. So that you may be a match to a loving relationship.