Rant: School Shootings

[Ayattar]

Where do you live? Wouldn't population size be an important factor to consider?

Poland.
I considered it. 25 homicides yearly, having 9 times less citizens than USA. Hence why 225 in the final yearly comparison.

[Lucyfish]

I see the Onion article has been linked, so my job here is done.

Also, a gun has exactly one purpose. Killing. Either people, or animals. Or to threaten it's use. 

I find shooting inanimate targets to be really fun, actually.

[Ayattar]

And I find shooting people funny.

Couldn't stop playing ASG, no matter what.

[TrishaCat]

I find shooting inanimate targets to be really fun, actually.

I used to target practice with my BB gun shooting tin cans and bottlecaps for fun. One time I even shot a toothpick. Come to think of it the wind from the shot might have been the thing that. 

Poland.I considered it. 25 homicides yearly, having 9 times less citizens than USA. Hence why 225 in the final yearly comparison.

Oops. I just saw.

My bad.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Battlechili

[Kaizy]

That ban if for the military servicemen only...
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/soldiers-can-keep-guns-at-home-but-not-ammo/970614

May want to double check what the article actually is saying.
 

BBC is a pretty reliable source, especially when they're interviewing people that live in the country, but alright.

Swedish citizens all serve in the military until they've served their time and then they keep their weapon and 50 rounds of ammo. That's right from that article. They regulate ammunition, this is not a disputable fact. There's numerous articles that talk about this. Their laws on obtaining and owning said weapons are much more strict than they are here because of how limited ammunition is, the required military training, and the overall cultural views on what a weapon should and shouldn't be used for, which is much different than it is out here. Their regulations are the reason they've only had ONE mass shooting in the country's history, which again, almost any article on Switzerland's gun control will mention the incident and the regulations the country instated to ensure that mass shootings went down.

The only reason Switzerland is used as the poster child for "why we should have guns" is simply because Americans take it at face value and only see the numbers that show that Swedish people have a lot of weaponry and mass-shootings are nearly non-existent, but they turn a convenient blind-eye to their stricter regulation, mandatory military service, and various other precautions that help keep those numbers so low. It's been proven that stricter gun regulation has prevented mass shootings. Again, I'm going to point the finger to Australia. While they went all out and banned guns in general, look at how many mass-murdering sprees they have...none, because guess what, it's fucking hard as tits to murder a large number of people with a blunt melee weapon or a knife than it is a firearm before someone takes you down. The US is nearing almost 1 mass-shooting a day, and it's getting more frequent because the laws aren't getting any stricter to accommodate the rising number of these shootings.

[Ayattar]

Oops. I just saw.

My bad.

No problem. Now, analyzing it further, taking into consideration overall number of murders. In Poland we have ratio of 1.2 whilst in the US it's 4.7. So four times less. Now, considering the amount of gun-related homicides a year, it looks like in the US people are two times more likely to use a gun to kill you, instead of other tools.

So it's not that bad actually. But still, I'd prefer at least having a chance. To run away, or disarm the opponent, for example. Guns don't give those.

Swedish

Swiss

Edited October 2, 2015 by Ayattar

[Wolflich]

re: Australia. Bear in mind that we are surrounded by water. There are still illegal weapons here, but we're in a pretty ideal situation to keep their import to a minimum. Banning them in the US and actually keeping people from getting them would be a whole other thing, even aside from cultural differences. You can't even keep people from crossing the border and here we put them in internment camps when they try.

[Ayattar]

re: Australia. Bear in mind that we are surrounded by water. There are still illegal weapons here, but we're in a pretty ideal situation to keep their import to a minimum. Banning them in the US and actually keeping people from getting them would be a whole other thing, even aside from cultural differences. You can't even keep people from crossing the border and here we put them in internment camps when they try.

We got hell lot of the weapons from Balkan wars (Kalashnikovs being sold on local markets for 50-100 bucks in the 90's) and from recent ukrainian conflict as well. Haven't caused any increase in gun-related crimes tho. Quite the contrary.

[Wolflich]

We got hell lot of the weapons from Balkan wars (Kalashnikovs being sold on local markets for 50-100 bucks in the 90's) and from recent ukrainian conflict as well. Haven't caused any increase in gun-related crimes tho. Quite the contrary.

That doesn't really surprise me. It seems to be more of a social problem than anything, it's just that in places like this you can solve it indirectly by taking away the tools people would use. I'm not sure we ever would have become as bad as the USA has but Australian culture does seem to have a thing for idiotic violence so you'd probably get more drunken morons killing people if they had an easier time arming themselves.

[Rukh Whitefang]

Yes, but now ask yourself, how would it look like if other people had no guns? Would he use a gun or just a knife?You know when last shooting happened here? In 2009. You know who died? Only members of criminal organisations who were participating. There were no random civilian casualties due to firearms usage since 1995 and the war between Wolomin and Pruszkow gangs.

Illegal weapons are being owned and used here as well (I, myself, had a fully functioning Mauser 98k rifle for a time). But not against random citizens. Since 2007 average amount of crimes in which guns were involved oscillates around 500 yearly with average 25 murders per a year. Whilst in US only in 2012 there were 8855 homicides with guns involved.

Now, considering that US has 9 times more citizens...

It gives us 8855 homicides yearly in the US compared to 225 here. 39 times more.

Nuff said.

The what if people had no guns is a horrible argument to make in the U.S. That is impossible. Period. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool in my opinion. Guns are here, you cannot get rid of them. So, instead of trying to do a mass ban (which won't stop illegal weapons anyways) we should be trying to figure out what in the culture/society seems to advocate mass shootings/gun violence. To further the point of the pointlessness of a mass ban of firearms The 2013 National Crime Victimize Survey report there were almost exactly 300,000 crimes, including murders, facilitated with a firearm. Of those, not more than 5,000 can be shown to have been facilitated with a firearm legally purchased by the offender.

So, of the 300,000 firearm related crimes only 1.67% of those guns were purchased legally. Do you see the problem I am getting at? Mass banning of firearms won't do anything, except take away the gun from a lawful citizen. Now I myself have never had to pull my gun out in self defense (and I hope I never have to) but several of my friends have. One of my former co-workers had a disgruntled driver (Cops said he was pissed that my co-workers truck headlights were to bright) get out of their vehicle and rip open the door of his truck. Only to find a handgun pointed at him. Now, what would have happened if my co-worker didn't have a firearm on him?
 

BBC is a pretty reliable source, especially when they're interviewing people that live in the country, but alright.

Swedish citizens all serve in the military until they've served their time and then they keep their weapon and 50 rounds of ammo. That's right from that article. They regulate ammunition, this is not a disputable fact. There's numerous articles that talk about this. Their laws on obtaining and owning said weapons are much more strict than they are here because of how limited ammunition is, the required military training, and the overall cultural views on what a weapon should and shouldn't be used for, which is much different than it is out here. Their regulations are the reason they've only had ONE mass shooting in the country's history, which again, almost any article on Switzerland's gun control will mention the incident and the regulations the country instated to ensure that mass shootings went down.

The only reason Switzerland is used as the poster child for "why we should have guns" is simply because Americans take it at face value and only see the numbers that show that Swedish people have a lot of weaponry and mass-shootings are nearly non-existent, but they turn a convenient blind-eye to their stricter regulation, mandatory military service, and various other precautions that help keep those numbers so low. It's been proven that stricter gun regulation has prevented mass shootings. Again, I'm going to point the finger to Australia. While they went all out and banned guns in general, look at how many mass-murdering sprees they have...none, because guess what, it's fucking hard as tits to murder a large number of people with a blunt melee weapon or a knife than it is a firearm before someone takes you down. The US is nearing almost 1 mass-shooting a day, and it's getting more frequent because the laws aren't getting any stricter to accommodate the rising number of these shootings.

I used Switzerland as an example of a society that has guns (a high percentage of guns) yet because they have a different culture/society they have less crime related to firearms. Now I saw the Swiss are conscripted into military service but the article does not state about private citizens and ammunition. All it states is that soldiers do not have military grade ammunition at their homes. In my opinion there is a huge leap going from military grade ammunition being banned from being in homes to nobody can have ammunition in any home. And in all honestly that doesn't even sound feasible to do. I cannot seem to find a definite answer on civilians and ammunition laws online. All I see is it relating to military service.

See above post about percentage of guns used for crimes that were legally bought vs illegally bought. Mass ban is pointless and a fruitless endeavor.
 

Edited October 2, 2015 by Rukh Whitefang

[Sidewalk Surfboard]

Did anyone see how 4chan made the media think that the shooter was Eggman? Because I did, and it made me laugh. I'm going directly to hell.

[Zeitzbach]

And here I thought Americans are ready to accept "Mass School Shooting" as part of their cultural events now.

[Wolflich]

I really wish the media would spend more time just quoting people who know what the fuck they're talking about rather than telling us what the window-licker writing the article thinks about something they don't understand at all. It's especially bad when it comes to reporting on science: half the time you read an article that says one thing then if you actually manage to find the study they're talking about it makes no such claim at all.

[Summercat]

I really wish the media would spend more time just quoting people who know what the fuck they're talking about rather than telling us what the window-licker writing the article thinks about something they don't understand at all. It's especially bad when it comes to reporting on science: half the time you read an article that says one thing then if you actually manage to find the study they're talking about it makes no such claim at all.

The 24 Hour News Cycle: if it bleeds, it leads.

[Toboe]

This sort of thing seems to happens mostly in the US. Why? Does your educational system fall short when it comes to addresing bullying? That's usually the motive, right?

Social Problems combined with bad gun Culture

–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– 

That ban is for the military servicemen only...
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/soldiers-can-keep-guns-at-home-but-not-ammo/970614

May want to double check what the article actually is saying.
 "Swiss citizens - for example hunters, or those who shoot as a sport - can get a permit to buy guns and ammunition" That was taken right from the article you posted.

And what is the regulation for getting a hunting/sports permit? What would the guns per capita look like if it excluded the military weapons?

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

Using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Intentional homicides per 100k, regardless of weapon use, so "if they can't use guns they'll use knives or whatever" and "but country size" should be answered.

Regulated  guns: Switzerland -> working (0.6 intentional homicides per 100k citizens)

Regulated guns: Germany -> working (0.8 intentional homicides per 100k citizens)

Regulated no guns: Japan -> working (0.3 intentional homicides per 100k citizens)

compared to USA 4.7 intentional homicides per 100k citizens.

 

Yeah, i can see, regulating to restrict gun access to responsible owners only and going after the blackmarket can't work.* Having gun-laws like over here in Germany means nobody (30.3 Guns per 100 residents[1]) can have guns and only criminals will have guns!

 

*Before somebody asks: Yes of course it is no panacea and the risk can't be magic'ed away (especially if you want to have some freedom left) but it CAN be managed.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

 

[Gryphoneer]

Comparing Americans to the Eidgenossen of Switzerland is like comapring apples and oranges.

In Switzerland ammosexuality isn't an accepted orientation. Practically speaking no other country has a gun culture as bonkers as the US - disregarding failed state hellholes where guns are part of the daily survival fight against roving raping militias - where you can walk with a concealed firearm right into townhalls, schools and other public institutions; where a gun is a status symbol that reflects your worth as a manly man; where a frighteningly huge number of people are convinced their cowboys in a western and they can win against the baddies in a shootout, yet with regularity manage to hurt themselves and innocent bystanders if they try to interfere in a supermarket robbery.

[Ratmomma]

We had some kid south of here shoot a principal. Honest to god, these people are fucking insane..

[Butters]

There needs to be heavy gun regulation. I'm from the south. People love their guns there. I've been to a shooting range, those people know about safety. 

But somehow people get their mitts on guns illegally. (Which is a bigger problem than drugs but for some reason more resources are put into locking up potheads) People with mental disorders are allowed them. People with violent histories are allowed them. 

And more and more people die. But not enough people care enough to take on the NRA and other groups that lobby against regulation. And more will die. That's America for ya though. 

[Sidewalk Surfboard]

There needs to be heavy gun regulation. I'm from the south. People love their guns there. I've been to a shooting range, those people know about safety. 

But somehow people get their mitts on guns illegally. (Which is a bigger problem than drugs but for some reason more resources are put into locking up potheads) People with mental disorders are allowed them. People with violent histories are allowed them. 

And more and more people die. But not enough people care enough to take on the NRA and other groups that lobby against regulation. And more will die. That's America for ya though. 

They really need to improve their background checking on people. If they have known depression or other mental illness, they should not be allowed to buy a gun.

[Ratmomma]

They really need to improve their background checking on people. If they have known depression or other mental illness, they should not be allowed to buy a gun.

I thought that was how it already was?

[Troj]

Of course, with HIPAA, I imagine this creates some issues.

[Sidewalk Surfboard]

I thought that was how it already was?

Well it's obviously not a good system because stuff like this already happens. People slip by somehow.

[Ratmomma]

Well it's obviously not a good system because stuff like this already happens. People slip by somehow.

Either I'm wrong, or people just don't efficiently do their jobs.

Of course, with HIPAA, I imagine this creates some issues.

If someone is trying to obtain a gun, I think that mental disorder info should be released, because fuck HIPAA in that situation.

[Zeitzbach]

They really need to improve their background checking on people. If they have known depression or other mental illness, they should not be allowed to buy a gun.

Even if they do that, remember there are places like "Burger and Gun". Yes. Fucking Burger and Gun. Where they allow kids to try shooting guns.

That was why the dad died like a fucking idiot he was.

[Troj]

Either I'm wrong, or people just don't efficiently do their jobs.

If someone is trying to obtain a gun, I think that mental disorder info should be released, because fuck HIPAA in that situation.

Yeah, but good luck saying "Fuck this law," even with another law.

Additionally, you then wade into this problem of how to sort "dangerous" mental illnesses from "not-dangerous" ones. That's tricky even for psychologists to discern. If people feel they've been wrongly sorted into the "dangerous" pile, then you'll have a discrimination case on your hands.

Personally, I agree that weapons shouldn't be sold to people with certain diagnoses or certain histories, but I also see the logistical problems associated with putting that into action.

[Ratmomma]

Yeah, but good luck saying "Fuck this law," even with another law.

Additionally, you then wade into this problem of how to sort "dangerous" mental illnesses from "not-dangerous" ones. That's tricky even for psychologists to discern. If people feel they've been wrongly sorted into the "dangerous" pile, then you'll have a discrimination case on your hands.

Personally, I agree that weapons shouldn't be sold to people with certain diagnoses or certain histories, but I also see the logistical problems associated with putting that into action.

Agreed. One really can't make a law regarding gun control without stepping into a field of landmines.

[Zeke]

There needs to be heavy gun regulation. I'm from the south. People love their guns there. I've been to a shooting range, those people know about safety. 

But somehow people get their mitts on guns illegally. (Which is a bigger problem than drugs but for some reason more resources are put into locking up potheads) People with mental disorders are allowed them. People with violent histories are allowed them. 

And more and more people die. But not enough people care enough to take on the NRA and other groups that lobby against regulation. And more will die. That's America for ya though. 

Like I said before, it's easier to obtain a gun through a Gun show these days since they aren't required to run any background checks once your purchase a weapon. Afterwards, they can go to a gun shop to buy ammo (depending on the state you live in).

Edited October 2, 2015 by Ozriel

[Dr. Doggo]

BBC is a pretty reliable source, especially when they're interviewing people that live in the country, but alright.

as a british man let me tell you

no

[Butters]

Like I said before, it's easier to obtain a gun through a Gun show these days since they aren't required to run any background checks once your purchase a weapon. Afterwards, they can go to a gun shop to buy ammo (depending on the state you live in).

indeed. That's been a prob for a while. (I remember that guy who did the Oklahoma City bombing got a lot of guns from them. 

I'm not sure how those are protected though. They must be though, because why else are they allowed to exist?

[Gryphoneer]

Now would you look at this.

John Parker Jr., a veteran and student at UCC, spoke with MSNBC and revealed that he was in a campus building with a concealed handgun when the shooting started. He suggested other students with him at the time were also carrying concealed handguns.

So much for the "good guys with guns" protecting the rest!

[Zeke]

indeed. That's been a prob for a while. (I remember that guy who did the Oklahoma City bombing got a lot of guns from them. 

I'm not sure how those are protected though. They must be though, because why else are they allowed to exist?

NRA and other lobbyists who support the second amendment right to own a firearm. They do have a police presence there (I went to one with a friend to buy her a taser), and the police do their job to make sure you aren't loading a gun there. As far as doing any checks to prevent an ex-felon or someone from buying a gun, nope. Only eleven states require background check at shows, and those states have either a mild regulation on gun sales to a right-out ban on carrying a gun.

Also, I was wrong. They do have ammo, but they keep it out of sight for the most part.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Ozriel

[Jtrekkie]

At the moment,  NICS is thorough. It is also large and unweildy, and inefficient. The database is still being built so for the time being people are faxing things back and forth.

When it is closer to completion it will be better suited for use by private citizens, but for now it isnt.

[Rukh Whitefang]

Social Problems combined with bad gun Culture

–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– 

And what is the regulation for getting a hunting/sports permit? What would the guns per capita look like if it excluded the military weapons?

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

Using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Intentional homicides per 100k, regardless of weapon use, so "if they can't use guns they'll use knives or whatever" and "but country size" should be answered.

Regulated  guns: Switzerland -> working (0.6 intentional homicides per 100k citizens)

Regulated guns: Germany -> working (0.8 intentional homicides per 100k citizens)

Regulated no guns: Japan -> working (0.3 intentional homicides per 100k citizens)

compared to USA 4.7 intentional homicides per 100k citizens.

 

Yeah, i can see, regulating to restrict gun access to responsible owners only and going after the blackmarket can't work.* Having gun-laws like over here in Germany means nobody (30.3 Guns per 100 residents[1]) can have guns and only criminals will have guns!

 

*Before somebody asks: Yes of course it is no panacea and the risk can't be magic'ed away (especially if you want to have some freedom left) but it CAN be managed.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

 

Again different culture makes a huge difference. Give an example of heavy gun restrictions in the U.S that works. Oh wait, Chicago does, lets see how thats working out. 50 shootings just last weekend. One of the top 3 most dangerous cities in the U.S. Those gun restrictions are working out great for them. You and nearly everyone else completely skipped over the info I posted from the Fed Gov.

In 2013 there were 300,000 violent crimes committed with firearms. Of those 300,000 crimes committed only 5000 of them were with a legally purchased gun. Less than 2% of gun crimes in the U.S are with legally bought firearms (including this mass shooting). Tell me how a blanket ban or more heavy restrictions would solve that problem? To me the illegal gun trade is a way bigger issue according to those figures because 295,000 gun crimes were with illegal firearms.

As far as how hard it is to purchase a firearm I quite literally just got back from buying a home defense shotgun. It took me an hour to go through all the paperwork and thats with a CPL. I still had to have a background check even though I have a CPL. And I had to, lawfully answer very specific questions regarding purchasing this shotgun. Such as if I have any felony charges pending/court proceedings, felonies, domestic violence charges, any mental health issues, ever been committed to a mental health hospital... I feel like I killed a small tree sapling from the amount of paperwork I filled out. Thats just for a shotgun or long rifle. Takes almost twice as long for a handgun purchase.


This has been and will continue to be a unique problem to the U.S not because of "not enough restrictions" but because of the culture we have. And until that changes events like this will continue to happen.

[nurseeyeroll]

I work at a community college and lots of students have grievances. Many students' lack the resilience to withstand the stressors  required of many professors.  Instead of learning from their mistakes and re-booting their way of dealing with the angst or anxiety of academic dysfunction, social rejection, etc their answer is to destroy everyone around them.. I have raised three children on how to utilize guns safely. Where we live guns are necessary protection against rattlesnakes, rabid skunks, and other vermin attacking our livestock and farm animals.  We utilize rifles to humanely euthanize venison for our meat as well.. I am too blind and do not have the upper body strength to safely hunt with a compound bow.  Bow hunting is not a humane way to bring down an animal.. Most of the people that want to destroy another human being will find the means.  When guns disappear they will utilize weapons of mass destruction or improvised devices to do so.. Murder and hate is biblical. People have been destroying each other way before guns.  Open your eyes folks and open your minds.  For those who do not know I am Red's momma.  We had many debates and disagreements and banter.  Guess what not one episode reverted to a gunfight.  Geez

Edited October 3, 2015 by nurseeyeroll

[Wolflich]

rabid skunks

As if regular ones weren't bad enough, now they come in 28-Days-Later variety?! Sounds like the job for a flamethrower.

[Azure]

same thoughts on this school shooting as all school shootings

its no different than any of the loads of people who get capped every day

literally no difference

its just the whole THINK OF THE CHILDREN mentality than people flock to

when actual children are getting shot elsewhere too

this isnt equivocating tradgedy, its just pointing out that plenty of people die from gun violence, but because it happened at a school somehow it gets more coverage

also the overwhelming majority of murders arent really committed with guns that are registered and taxed and blah blah blah. gun control is just a phantom pile of words for pussies to shove about when they feel threatened. instead, everyone should have a gun. equal opportunity is a motherfucker.

[Summercat]

same thoughts on this school shooting as all school shootings

its no different than any of the loads of people who get capped every day

literally no difference

its just the whole THINK OF THE CHILDREN mentality than people flock to

when actual children are getting shot elsewhere too

this isnt equivocating tradgedy, its just pointing out that plenty of people die from gun violence, but because it happened at a school somehow it gets more coverage

also the overwhelming majority of murders arent really committed with guns that are registered and taxed and blah blah blah. gun control is just a phantom pile of words for pussies to shove about when they feel threatened. instead, everyone should have a gun. equal opportunity is a motherfucker.

Ow the Edge

[Azure]

Ow the Edge

ive written this same paragraph probably more than a few times

its pretty much reality, fuck the edge

[Gamedog]

Someone MURDERED someone with a gun! This is un-fucking-believable! Doesn't he know murder is illegal?
We should make guns illegal! That will stop him!

 

Hahahhaha

[GarthTheWereWolf]

Banning guns is merely treating the symptoms rather than curing the disease. Mentally unstable people are going to kill regardless of whether guns are available or not. What America needs is better mental health systems in place. What we have now is a severe lack of beds available for treatment of the mentally ill in cases of psychiatric emergencies.. What results is the only people who can easily get treatment are criminals and we have these blowups that result in mass murders. Its not like these kids had no prior history or warning signs. Had mental health help been more accessible and less stigmatized in society these shootings probably could have been avoided.

[Rukh Whitefang]

Someone MURDERED someone with a gun! This is un-fucking-believable! Doesn't he know murder is illegal?
We should make guns illegal! That will stop him!

 

Hahahhaha

I guess nobody is paying attention to whats going on in Chicago. This past May 300 people were shot, and 37 were killed, over Memorial weekend 40 people were shot. And this past weekend in a 15 hour period 50 people were shot.

[Sarcastic Coffeecup]

They should start adding school shooting forecasts to their news in the 'states.

School shootings have become so common I don't even care about them unless one happens in here where guns aren't given out like candy.

[Skylar Husky]

I thought that was how it already was?

They do. Anytime I have bought a firearm, be it at a gun show or in a sporting goods store, there is a toll free telephone number that is called by the seller of the gun in which he has to give personal information, I fill out on an application in order to see if I make any FBI watch lists. It is usually handled in a matter of a few minutes since it is a computer database that whoever they call is looking up.

 

Edited October 3, 2015 by Skylar Husky

[Irreverent]

I don't know whether or not to be amused or disgusted that the Obama administration is ramping this up as a political wedge issue; but accusing everyone else of playing politics.  They're OK with the Iranian Nuclear deal (that lets a rogue terrorist nation keep the centrifuges needed to make nuclear weapons) but are upset that Americans own guns?  It beggars belief.

[Butters]

I don't know whether or not to be amused or disgusted that the Obama administration is ramping this up as a political wedge issue; but accusing everyone else of playing politics.  They're OK with the Iranian Nuclear deal (that lets a rogue terrorist nation keep the centrifuges needed to make nuclear weapons) but are upset that Americans own guns?  It beggars belief.

well, they also tell other people to respect human rights when they are allies with Saudi Arabia. (Although, I've heard they just want Iran to fuck up so they can go to war again cuz our democrats are sorta war hungry too xD)

thats why I'm an independent. Republicans and republican-lite/democrats need to hang up their hats. 

Edited October 3, 2015 by Butters

[#00Buck]

BBC is a pretty reliable source, especially when they're interviewing people that live in the country, but alright.

Swedish citizens all serve in the military until they've served their time and then they keep their weapon and 50 rounds of ammo. That's right from that article. They regulate ammunition, this is not a disputable fact. There's numerous articles that talk about this. Their laws on obtaining and owning said weapons are much more strict than they are here because of how limited ammunition is, the required military training, and the overall cultural views on what a weapon should and shouldn't be used for, which is much different than it is out here. Their regulations are the reason they've only had ONE mass shooting in the country's history, which again, almost any article on Switzerland's gun control will mention the incident and the regulations the country instated to ensure that mass shootings went down.

The only reason Switzerland is used as the poster child for "why we should have guns" is simply because Americans take it at face value and only see the numbers that show that Swedish people have a lot of weaponry and mass-shootings are nearly non-existent, but they turn a convenient blind-eye to their stricter regulation, mandatory military service, and various other precautions that help keep those numbers so low. It's been proven that stricter gun regulation has prevented mass shootings. Again, I'm going to point the finger to Australia. While they went all out and banned guns in general, look at how many mass-murdering sprees they have...none, because guess what, it's fucking hard as tits to murder a large number of people with a blunt melee weapon or a knife than it is a firearm before someone takes you down. The US is nearing almost 1 mass-shooting a day, and it's getting more frequent because the laws aren't getting any stricter to accommodate the rising number of these shootings.

Blub... Glub...

You are confusing Sweden and Switzerland. 

Swedish people come from Sweden.

Swiss people come from Switzerland. 

[Troj]

I work at a community college and lots of students have grievances. Many students' lack the resilience to withstand the stressors  required of many professors.  Instead of learning from their mistakes and re-booting their way of dealing with the angst or anxiety of academic dysfunction, social rejection, etc their answer is to destroy everyone around them.. I have raised three children on how to utilize guns safely. Where we live guns are necessary protection against rattlesnakes, rabid skunks, and other vermin attacking our livestock and farm animals.  We utilize rifles to humanely euthanize venison for our meat as well.. I am too blind and do not have the upper body strength to safely hunt with a compound bow.  Bow hunting is not a humane way to bring down an animal.. Most of the people that want to destroy another human being will find the means.  When guns disappear they will utilize weapons of mass destruction or improvised devices to do so.. Murder and hate is biblical. People have been destroying each other way before guns.  Open your eyes folks and open your minds.  For those who do not know I am Red's momma.  We had many debates and disagreements and banter.  Guess what not one episode reverted to a gunfight.  Geez

I also currently live in a community where people regularly hunt and use guns safely, and teach their youngsters to do the same from a young age.

Of course, the guns people own here are rifles, shotguns, pistols, crossbows, and other things actually suitable for hunting. People aren't packing the kinds of stockpiles that have allowed school shooters and mass murderers to mow down dozens of people within seconds--so, there are guns, and there are guns.

Declining student resilience and strength is a big problem that's just beginning to be noticed: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201509/declining-student-resilience-serious-problem-colleges

My sense is that our society's tendency to "celebritize" serial killers and mass murderers also sends a message to similarly-disturbed people that the way to become immortal and famous is to rack up a high body count.

[Ratical]

My sense is that our society's tendency to "celebritize" serial killers and mass murderers also sends a message to similarly-disturbed people that the way to become immortal and famous is to rack up a high body count.

The gunman did cite Vester Flanagan (the man who shot that reporter here in Virginia) as one of his inspirations.

This person felt like he had very little to live for and just chose to throw it all away in a last-ditched attempt at notoriety. It's so unfortunate because he was lacking a lot of things in his own life and it ended up affected so many other people. In addition to not glorifying shooters, there needs to be a bigger effort to help other people who are struggling with things like this. Just on a personal level. If someone's having issues and you feel like you can help, it's good to try. We can't fix everything but it has to make it better. A weak link in the chain can bring things down for a lotta people. That's why support has to be uniform.

[PastryOfApathy]

I also currently live in a community where people regularly hunt and use guns safely, and teach their youngsters to do the same from a young age.

Of course, the guns people own here are rifles, shotguns, pistols, crossbows, and other things actually suitable for hunting. People aren't packing the kinds of stockpiles that have allowed school shooters and mass murderers to mow down dozens of people within seconds--so, there are guns, and there are guns.

It's slightly aside the main topic but this shit reminds me of all those "prepper" types who insist on the fact that need to own like 20 M60's, 2 miniguns and a rocket launcher to survive when the evil government is overthrown or some shit. I was watching a show on National Geographic about them and they're seriously some of the most delusional motherfuckers out there, like niggas straight up stockpiling fucking gold because apparently when doomsday comes everyone's gonna be trading gold instead of stupid worthless shit like food, water and supplies.

Like if I remember right in Argentina where the economies collapsed and the closest thing to their post-apocalyptic wet dream actually happened, most of the people who died where fucking survivalists hiding in the middle of bumfuck nowhere. Apparently as it turns out, having more ammo than the fucking army and loads of big scary guns doesn't mean anything when armed gangs bust in your door at 3 in the morning while your busy dreaming about how 'sooper badazz' you look right now.

I mean if you wanna own like military-style assault rifles and other comically unnecessary guns go for it, but don't fucking try and convince me you need that m60 to repel home invaders or some shit.

[Troj]

I mean if you wanna own like military-style assault rifles and other comically unnecessary guns go for it, but don't fucking try and convince me you need that m60 to repel home invaders or some shit.

Yep, exactly.

And they probably think I'm naive and delusional,  but I think anyone who thinks that they'll be able to thwart a Black Helicopter UN-backed fascist government takeover with their own personal arsenal is being naive, delusional, and nutty.

The sad reality is that there are a lot of people who are into guns mostly because of what they symbolize for them, and this creates a bigger loophole for the types of who intend to use those same guns to actively harm people.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Troj