Condemning normality, men and embracing aberrant behaviour

[Sarcastic Coffeecup]

So I assume by now you've heard of Australia's Victoria implementing juvenile brainwashing. Their schools are adopting male priviledge check in their curriculum, which tells men they are terrible people and that despite evidence to the contrary, every male is priviledged and is a likely rapist, wife beater and overall a terrible being. It completely ignores the men being assaulted by women. It's also challenging gender norms, teaching people to embrace LGBTQ+ and telling that if you fit in a normal box for men or women, you're only doing that because society tells you to, and that you should essentially rebel against it. I fucking love how even the curriculum itself doesn't think it's true, by stating "male

It doesn't take much of a critical thinker to see how that is doomed to be extremely hazardous to people. The aim of it is a good one, to prevent domestic violence caused by men, and I think it's fine they want to tackle that issue, but when you label being a man a risk to everyone, and being a female makes you a victim by default, something is doomed to go wrong. Now, where have I heard these claims before.... Oh yes, modern feminism. I can already see the aftermath of this, men are going to get bullied simply for being a man, men are also going to have serious self esteem and mental health issues because they are told by a SCHOOL (Which should be the cradle of objectivity and a source for truth, and truth alone) that they are terrible people. Women are going to start fighting out their nonexistent victimisation and make up enemies or go against the one group SCHOOL told was responsible for all the harm in the world, men.

They had a pilot programme for this and it did not go well, but because feminism doesn't listen to reason, Victoria chose to add it in anyway, subjecting a large number of people to literal brainwashing. How fucking hypocritical can it get, first people say to not label groups because #notallX, but when it comes to men (or being white for that matter) being labeled terrible, it is perfectly fine. It is essentially accepted sexism (and racism) because.... I don't even know. I'll rant about the racism towards whites some other day though, this is about schools and genders.

The fun doesn't end there. As a Finn, I've lived my life in a place of stable living. Catcalling is practically nonexistent, people are generally accepting of new ideas and we are a chill bunch. This time though our department of education is, yet again, fucking up. This time on par with Australia. We are banning mentions of genders from our schools. Yes, that's right, because apparently calling people by their sex is subjecting people to the belief sex matters. We are also getting lessons in grade schools in which people are taught terms Trans, CIS Pansexual and whatever people can be, while giving the idea being CIS is awful. Because Finnish DOES NOT HAVE GENDERED PRONOUNS OR PARTICLES, we are looking to change other languages to accept nongendered, custom pronouns. We are probably going to get taught pronouns on English classes like xis and xer and zis and zer or zir or whatever the fuck they meant when they said that. "We acknowledge sexes are not necessarily biological, but social and cultural constructs" WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT? This is bullshit in quantities I do not even comprehend. Saying boys' or girls' is prohibited, and instead names should be used. I am appalled this has gotten as far as it has considering it has no basis, and that 90% people disagree with the notion, for a good reason. At least Finland isn't adopting the priviledge check on the same scale with Aus, so we've got that going for us.

Globally our culture is going in a direction where we are all supposed to be a genderless grey mass, in which being what you are biologically programmed to be is wrong and should be abolished, unless it's LGBTQ+ or you're a woman. If we keep this up, within a decade young boys will be bullied to the brink of depression because they aren't genderless grey goops or people of a million genders, and same applies to women on a smaller scale. I fucking love this particular line Don't you dare fall in love with a person of the opposing gender, because that makes you a social conformist brainwashed by the patriarchy!

 

Fuck this shit, how does this even happen?

[evan]

I actually haven't heard about this but it sounds awful. I might do some research.

 

 

[Fossa]

Odd, in a country where gay marriage is illegal.

Those crazy Aussies!

I think the Kangaroos have punched them in the head one too many times.

(Also, New Zealand is a lot cooler)

[Snagged]

Ayyy, a fellow Finn here

But on topic, sexism has always existed in history. It still does. Some countries practice it more than others *cough* Saudi Arabia *cough* and from what I have observed, modern feminism is a counteract to centuries of male dominance in most societies across the globe. Much like male hegemony, feminism is pointless IMO and now that they have been given voice to speak about centuries of abuse, the feminist people are definitely using to the point of abuse just for the sake of petty revenge. What baffles me more how people (men), all the way in governmental level are actually complying feminists, submitting themselves to a thought that all men are evil women abusers. Like stereotypes, that is overly generalized and stupid and it's done just to have some vengeance. Feminists are unforgiving people.

As for the definition of genders, I think that's a whole another different topic from the rise of feminism yet they are included in a single post but here it goes anyway. 

29 minutes ago, Sarcastic Coffeecup said:

"We acknowledge sexes are not necessarily biological, but social and cultural constructs"

Yes they are. You cannot go around this fact for as long men and women have differing genitals.

Quote

but social and cultural constructs

You can identify as a different gender but your biological gender always remains the same, at least with the technology available we currently have available. An example: Your parents have divorced and your mom marries to a different person. That person will be your step-parent (probably step dad) but just because you have step dad in  your life does not mean that the genes that gave instructions how you were made also come from him. No, those came from your real biological father.

33 minutes ago, Sarcastic Coffeecup said:

Saying boys' or girls' is prohibited

I agree that prohibiting these words reeks of unfathomable stupidity but, there is a little bit of thought behind it just with the wrong solution. A better solution would be to adopt a wholly different word for a person who identifies as transgender or something else (how about an attack helicopter ) or we could could just change the way we speak to mention "biologically gender X" (X not being undefined but a defined gender which are male and female)

39 minutes ago, Sarcastic Coffeecup said:

If we keep this up, within a decade young boys will be bullied to the brink of depression

Don't worry, feminism will die eventually. I hope... Our technological advancement is very rapid and with new technology and a rapidly growing population, social and cultural reforms are bound to follow, which usually are a wake before better human rights

Quote

Your signature is quite appropriate to describe both of our reactions: Not like this

[Saxon]

Yeah, I brought this up on the forum a day or so ago. As you say, the new curriculum is going ahead even though a pilot study found it wanting because it portrayed all women as victims and all men as evil. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-37640353

 

 

 

[Sarcastic Coffeecup]

27 minutes ago, Snagged Cub said:

Your signature is quite appropriate to describe both of our reactions: Not like this

it very much is.

As a fellow finnn you'll understand our language, so you can read the suggestion right below. I'd have a pint of bleach readily available, this is a terrible read.

http://www.oph.fi/download/173318_tasa_arvotyo_on_taitolaji.pdf

E: I love how they say on the PDF this is no longer about gender/sex neutrality, but gender/sex enlightening

"Perusopetuksen opetussuunnitelman perusteiden 2014 mukaan opetuksen tulee

olla sukupuolitietoista. Vuoden 2004 perusteet olivat pitkälti sukupuolineutraalit"

[Saxon]

Out of interest, if Finns are going to expel references to gender in their language, what are they going to do when they learn foreign languages in which words are gendered?

[#00Buck]

1 hour ago, Sarcastic Coffeecup said:

So I assume by now you've heard of Australia's Victoria implementing juvenile brainwashing. Their schools are adopting male priviledge check in their curriculum, which tells men they are terrible people and that despite evidence to the contrary, every male is priviledged and is a likely rapist, wife beater and overall a terrible being. It completely ignores the men being assaulted by women. It's also challenging gender norms, teaching people to embrace LGBTQ+ and telling that if you fit in a normal box for men or women, you're only doing that because society tells you to, and that you should essentially rebel against it. I fucking love how even the curriculum itself doesn't think it's true, by stating "male

It doesn't take much of a critical thinker to see how that is doomed to be extremely hazardous to people. The aim of it is a good one, to prevent domestic violence caused by men, and I think it's fine they want to tackle that issue, but when you label being a man a risk to everyone, and being a female makes you a victim by default, something is doomed to go wrong. Now, where have I heard these claims before.... Oh yes, modern feminism. I can already see the aftermath of this, men are going to get bullied simply for being a man, men are also going to have serious self esteem and mental health issues because they are told by a SCHOOL (Which should be the cradle of objectivity and a source for truth, and truth alone) that they are terrible people. Women are going to start fighting out their nonexistent victimisation and make up enemies or go against the one group SCHOOL told was responsible for all the harm in the world, men.

They had a pilot programme for this and it did not go well, but because feminism doesn't listen to reason, Victoria chose to add it in anyway, subjecting a large number of people to literal brainwashing. How fucking hypocritical can it get, first people say to not label groups because #notallX, but when it comes to men (or being white for that matter) being labeled terrible, it is perfectly fine. It is essentially accepted sexism (and racism) because.... I don't even know. I'll rant about the racism towards whites some other day though, this is about schools and genders.

The fun doesn't end there. As a Finn, I've lived my life in a place of stable living. Catcalling is practically nonexistent, people are generally accepting of new ideas and we are a chill bunch. This time though our department of education is, yet again, fucking up. This time on par with Australia. We are banning mentions of genders from our schools. Yes, that's right, because apparently calling people by their sex is subjecting people to the belief sex matters. We are also getting lessons in grade schools in which people are taught terms Trans, CIS Pansexual and whatever people can be, while giving the idea being CIS is awful. Because Finnish DOES NOT HAVE GENDERED PRONOUNS OR PARTICLES, we are looking to change other languages to accept nongendered, custom pronouns. We are probably going to get taught pronouns on English classes like xis and xer and zis and zer or zir or whatever the fuck they meant when they said that. "We acknowledge sexes are not necessarily biological, but social and cultural constructs" WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT? This is bullshit in quantities I do not even comprehend. Saying boys' or girls' is prohibited, and instead names should be used. I am appalled this has gotten as far as it has considering it has no basis, and that 90% people disagree with the notion, for a good reason. At least Finland isn't adopting the priviledge check on the same scale with Aus, so we've got that going for us.

Globally our culture is going in a direction where we are all supposed to be a genderless grey mass, in which being what you are biologically programmed to be is wrong and should be abolished, unless it's LGBTQ+ or you're a woman. If we keep this up, within a decade young boys will be bullied to the brink of depression because they aren't genderless grey goops or people of a million genders, and same applies to women on a smaller scale. I fucking love this particular line Don't you dare fall in love with a person of the opposing gender, because that makes you a social conformist brainwashed by the patriarchy!

 

Fuck this shit, how does this even happen?

Hate Speech!

 

[FlynnCoyote]

Australia has always been an overprotective nanny country. Some states are worse than others, but this certainly puts Victoria in the lead.

[Snagged]

1 minute ago, Saxon said:

Out of interest, if Finns are going to expel references to gender in their language, what are they going to do when they learn foreign languages in which words are gendered?

We already have genderless language. The Finnish word "Hän" refers to both He and She

[Saxon]

Just now, Snagged Cub said:

We already have genderless language. The Finnish word "Hän" refers to both He and She

I got that; I was referring to being forbidden from saying 'boy' or 'girl'.

I was wondering though what would happen when they learn a foreign language in which pronouns are sexed.

One might imagine that students would wonder why they were forbidden from making references to gender, when other countries get on just fine doing it constantly.

[Sarcastic Coffeecup]

7 minutes ago, Saxon said:

Out of interest, if Finns are going to expel references to gender in their language, what are they going to do when they learn foreign languages in which words are gendered?

We'll learn bullshit pronouns like Mx and ze

"Opetellaan

myös sukupuolen moninaisuudelle tilaa antavia persoonapronomineja (hon,

han, hen; she, he, ze) sekä sukupuolineutraaleja ja naisten siviilisäätyä

määrittelemättömiä puhuttelusanoja (Mr, Ms, Mrs, Mx)."

And I guess we'll label masculine words as toxic words and feminine stems as liberating

[Snagged]

1 minute ago, Saxon said:

I got that; I was referring to being forbidden from saying 'boy' or 'girl'.

I was wondering though what would happen when they learn a foreign language in which pronouns are sexed.

One might imagine that students would wonder why they were forbidden from making references to gender, when other countries get on just fine doing it constantly.

Yeah, that would be silly

A reverse situation already happened here. Finnish is genderless, English isn't. So, for the longest time I used male pronoun He to refer to females too because word He reminded the word Hän the most. It took a conscious effort to overcome this habit

[Saxon]

3 minutes ago, Sarcastic Coffeecup said:

We'll learn bullshit pronouns like Mx and ze

"Opetellaan

myös sukupuolen moninaisuudelle tilaa antavia persoonapronomineja (hon,

han, hen; she, he, ze) sekä sukupuolineutraaleja ja naisten siviilisäätyä

määrittelemättömiä puhuttelusanoja (Mr, Ms, Mrs, Mx)."

And I guess we'll label masculine words as toxic words and feminine stems as liberating

Ha x3

To be honest we already have a suitable neutral pronoun in European English; 'they'. If I didn't know whether my new boss was a man or a woman I would say 'I can't wait to find out what they're like,'.

That pronoun is a plural in North American English, though.

 

I remember when I was learning spanish that the teacher explained that 'your english words do not have gender, but Spanish does- because it is a very sexist language'. She was joking and she made us all laugh.

[Sarcastic Coffeecup]

1 minute ago, Saxon said:

Ha x3

To be honest we already have a suitable neutral pronoun in European English; 'they'. If I didn't know whether my new boss was a man or a woman I would say 'I can't wait to find out what they're like,'.

That pronoun is a plural in North American English, though.

 

I remember when I was learning spanish that the teacher explained that 'your english words do not have gender, but Spanish does- because it is a very sexist language'. She was joking and she made us all laugh.

I am well aware of the pronoun for unknown gender, "They", however our suggested curriculum endorses Ze (Zey?) instead, which is aggravating.

[Saxon]

2 minutes ago, Sarcastic Coffeecup said:

I am well aware of the pronoun for unknown gender, "They", however our suggested curriculum endorses Ze (Zey?) instead, which is aggravating.

I was more pointing out that different English speaking countries use 'they' differently. North American speakers would be unlikely to approve of the way I use it, for example.

I can't believe that Ze is endorsed though...no English speaker would ever use that...well, there are some but zey have flourescent pink hair and slews of facial piercings.

[DrGravitas]

8 minutes ago, Saxon said:

I was more pointing out that different English speaking countries use 'they' differently. North American speakers would be unlikely to approve of the way I use it, for example.

I can't believe that Ze is endorsed though...no English speaker would ever use that...well, there are some but zey have flourescent pink hair and slews of facial piercings.

I use 'they' that way all the time. Hell, I even use it just about any time I refer to someone in third-person. I don't think it's all that unusual.

[Vallium]

I'm all for equality on all fronts but when you go SJW Tumblrina territory youre literally playing society on the opposite end of the spectrum, 100 years from now you'll probably have women beating men and men with no rights in some neo-alternative society where being a disabled female trans minority makes you the superior race

Can people just not be dicks AND not be dumbasses there is literally no way to do both, apparently

[GarthTheWereWolf]

Grrrrrrrr

I am a white man with a penis!

Fear me and my patriarchal hairy muscles, women folk!

[Vae]

2 hours ago, Snagged Cub said:

Yes they are. You cannot go around this fact for as long men and women have differing genitals.

...

You can identify as a different gender but your biological gender always remains the same, at least with the technology available we currently have available.

The lines here are kind of blurred when we do have [surgery] and [chemical options] now that change the body. While it's important to take your starting point into account medically, "women are born with a vagina" and "men are born with a penis" is kind of irrelevant nowadays from a medical standpoint.


@ The rest of this topic: I feel like it's good to teach kids about these concepts while they're young. Hell, I didn't even know about the existence of transgenderism until I was like 17 or 18, because it's not something people acknowledged where I grew up. And later still until I realized I identified with a lot of those things, because it was just a throwaway in passing conversation.

I'm also in favor of getting rid of the custom of marketing and denoting "boys'" and "girls'" entirely, because I've always been "Fuck that noise" about the whole concept.

But that sounds really, really fucking excessive. It would be nice if they could find a medium, but knowing people, they probably won't.

[Vallium]

On the topic of "We cant ignore biological sex men hve dix women vaginas XX, XY, Yada yada yada", while all this is true that alone doesnt imply a man or a women because many other traits including neurological, hormonal, and other secondary sex traits thereafter exist WITHOUT medical intervention and you get people with a grab bag mix of traits, so people can be Anatomically and Karyotypically Male or Female but still look and feel very much the other way, so if they say its what they are in their experience, then it is indeed what they are. In the end to deny them that is not treating them right because in the end they are a person whether man or woman

Vae's post kind of pinpoints the "after" with technology, but gender is very much blurred even before all that more than most people realize because its not always the most obviously seen external traits

[Fossa]

4 hours ago, Sarcastic Coffeecup said:

Saying boys' or girls' is prohibited...

OMG, I'd just be Fossa. This is not good. 

 

[Fantasma]

The correct way of doing that would be teaching children that people are equal no matter race, gender, or sexuality and a little bit about what people different than them go through on a daily basis.

EX: 

having children attend a multicultarism class where they do research and present projects on different countries and religions around the world. It doesn't mean their culture is any less valid, simply that others hold the same validity and should be respected within reason.

As kids enter middle school or whatever the mean age for sexuality awareness is they should indeed learn about all the sexualities and the concept that you don't *have* to be male or female in the traditional senses while encouraging love and understand of others at a young age.

 

 

Just, you don't fight hate with ignorance, because you will always lose. You have to fight it by keeping your mind open and embracing others who are different from you while at the same time reexamining your own beliefs and embracing and loving yourself and the culture you have in your heart.

 

......meanwhile in oklahoma they are voting to allow public money to go to religious institutions. Churchstate anyone?

[Taikugemu]

Society will only find peace when everyone identifies as an attack helicopter. 

[TrishaCat]

This reminds me some of what was implemented in one school in New York regarding the school's treatment towards white kids and black kids as well as what was taught between them. Pretty much a similar goal in mind to help eliminate racism and privilege.

http://nypost.com/2016/07/01/elite-k-8-school-teaches-white-students-theyre-born-racist/

http://www.wnd.com/2016/07/elite-nyc-school-teaches-white-kids-theyre-born-racist/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3670918/White-babies-display-signs-racism-Elite-New-York-school-tells-white-kids-ashamed-privilege-segregates-children-race.html

I can't say I'm thrilled about the way these issues are being handled by schools. 

5 hours ago, Sarcastic Coffeecup said:

Fuck this shit, how does this even happen?

These actions are done to try and make things better, so media portrays it in a positive light and people who take issue with such beliefs are seen as the bad guys.

5 hours ago, Sarcastic Coffeecup said:

xis and xer and zis and zer or zir

That reminds me....

[Hux]

Are you shitlords ready to join me in Antarctica yet? I have both heaters and fishing poles now. My economy is really picking up.

I also finished designing our flag:

I know what you're thinking "B-but fearless leader Hux, this penis is hardly erect! Our enemies will view this lame dick as a sign of weakness and attack us!" Well, don't worry. Okay? I'm still designing our battle flag which will depict a large, fully erect and veiny dick that will strike fear into the hearts of our enemies.

I chose black and white because I wanted a minimalist design that could reflect the stoic character of our nation.

[PastryOfApathy]

>In the name of equality, we must force men and women into pre-defined and intentionally lopsided gender roles

 

 

[TrishaCat]

12 minutes ago, PastryOfApathy said:

I didn't know you were a white nationalist

[Jtrekkie]

Descartes, Hobbes, Locke, Kant, we had reasoned out everything needed to avoid these asinine problems entirely, but nuuuupe. Equality isn't good enough.

[PastryOfApathy]

17 minutes ago, Battlechili said:

I didn't know you were a white nationalist

I mean, I did post a selfie wearing a MAGA hat that one time.

Also there was that klan meeting I invited a couple people to last weekend but shhh....

It's a secret.

[Vae]

1 hour ago, Taikugemu said:

Society will only find peace when everyone identifies as an attack helicopter. 

"Attack helicopter" is admittedly a much better gender-neutral term than "xhazqut7e☺♋re / xhazqut7e☺♋rer / xhazqut7e☺♋rerself",
so I'm fully in support of this.

[Sourdough]

1 minute ago, Vae said:

"Attack helicopter" is admittedly a much better gender-neutral term than "xhazqut7e☺♋re / xhazqut7e☺♋rer / xhazqut7e☺♋rerself",
so I'm fully in support of this.

"Ugh I'm not a Bell AH-1 Cobra, you shitlord. I'm a Bell AH-1Z Viper, don't misgender me in my safe space"

[Vae]

1 minute ago, Sourdough said:

"Ugh I'm not a Bell AH-1 Cobra, you shitlord. I'm a Bell AH-1Z Viper, don't misgender me in my safe space"

Attack helicopter? I'm a spaceship.
Check your privilege.

[Mikazuki Marazhu]

This is why I tend to lean towards the right wing. The disgusting smell of first world problems, SJW and Politically Correctness

[Zaraphayx]

 

[Taikugemu]

8 minutes ago, Mikazuki Marazhu said:

This is why I tend to lean towards the right wing. The disgusting smell of first world problems, SJW and Politically Correctness

[FenrirDarkWolf]

6 hours ago, Fossa-Boy said:

Odd, in a country where gay marriage is illegal.

Those crazy Aussies!

I think the Kangaroos have punched them in the head one too many times.

(Also, New Zealand is a lot cooler)

That's amazingly ironic

[Hewge]

Tad bit exaggerated, but yeah. The concept and ideals of genders and the like is just getting kind of... ridiculous.

It's like Tumblr is spreading into the real world!

[Snagged]

 

4 hours ago, WolfNightV4X1 said:

On the topic of "We cant ignore biological sex men hve dix women vaginas XX, XY, Yada yada yada", while all this is true that alone doesnt imply a man or a women because many other traits including neurological, hormonal, and other secondary sex traits thereafter exist WITHOUT medical intervention and you get people with a grab bag mix of traits, so people can be Anatomically and Karyotypically Male or Female but still look and feel very much the other way, so if they say its what they are in their experience, then it is indeed what they are. In the end to deny them that is not treating them right because in the end they are a person whether man or woman

Vae's post kind of pinpoints the "after" with technology, but gender is very much blurred even before all that more than most people realize because its not always the most obviously seen external traits

A gender identification is how your brain sees which gender you are. Your physical gender depends on what kind of genitals you have between your crotch.

I confess, there are situations where "the mind" (brain) of an individual identifies itself and the body it is commanding as opposite gender, e.g a mind of a woman in the body of a man. Previously in history, gender was only defined by your visible physical characteristics which was determined whether you had a vagina or penis. Nowadays, with the advent of advanced human psychology and knowledge of human biology, the line of a true gender is indeed blurred because you can have those mixed persons with unmatched physical gender and gender identification and all that without any surgeries. It all can come naturally. 

However, add in medical operations into the equation and you've got yourself a confusing mess. But, our medical technology is still limited. You can treat someone with hormonal supplements to make a person feel more like the opposite gender (the gender they identify as) but you can't yet surgically create a biologically correct opposite genitalia. 

A man that has a penis inverted to vagina may have issues with urinating and above all, they can't get naturally pregnant. Other means to fertilize a transfemale, like the operation of Ectopic Pregnancy carries a high risk of failure and are morally very questionable. So far no one has done that. 

Vice versa, a transmale can't have semen production because they lack an organ solely dedicated to produce it; The testicles. That same organ also happens to be primarily responsible for testosterone production so a transmale would have to rely on external hormonal supplements to keep their gender integrity in check. 

All in all, all the surgeries the world's most skilled surgeons could perform are nowhere near to create a perfect gender change. There will be always remnants to remind you of your origins and they will have an effect on your (sex) life in the world we presently live in

As long as a transgender person is unable to have artificially grown genital organs and have them successfully installed by surgeons and then actually have them work properly then you can always tell if a person is transgender because they have a physical abnormality in them, which also makes them neither a physical male or female, at least in today's world.

Hence I still support a term is needed for transgender people instead of going the stupid way of SJW and banning the words boy and girl. 

Also, a reminder that your physical gender and gender identification are not the same. If your brain is wired to expect high levels of estrogen, then you can take estrogen hormonal supplements to make yourself feel more comfortable in your own body. And that's okay for me. However, one does not simply physically change genders to opposite. There might be a middle ground known as transgender, depending on definitions but you can never fully complete the leap from male to female and vice versa with the technology and expertise available today. It will be only partial. You'd need reliable artifical organs and a way to neurologically connect them to your body (preferably without rejection reaction from the body) to do a complete physical gender change. Luckily, we are not that far away from the reality, which is what I think also contributes to the waking of the question "What to do with transgender people?" 

If I meet a transgender person, I will refer them by the gender based on their physical outlook, not based on how they feel because honestly, I cannot read anyone's mind. This is especially true if said transgender person is a person I just met. I will call them by the gender they feel like if they specifically request for it but my initial impression of the gender is always based on what I see with my own eyes. I might be inconsiderate by saying all that but how would I initially know? 

Luckily, my language is without a gender so it isn't that big of an issue outside of Internet. You English speakers, please adopt a third or even fourth gender or do like us Finns and simplify things: Adopt a genderless pronoun as a default. You might need it in the future more than you'd like to admit. 

Now someone please tell me why I wrote this nerdy essay about transgenderism on a furry forum? 

[Troj]

I volunteered for a rape crisis intervention and education center that had an educational curriculum for schools, and while the people involved were passionate, ethical, and well-intentioned, I ultimately backed off because they just couldn't see the difference between sharing basic, validated, relatively-uncontroversial facts about sex, relationships, and assault, and teaching people actual third-wave feminist theory.

You can teach people to respect others' identities or suggest that gender identity and performance contain a social component without launching into a full-on college-level lecture on said identities and their social implications. You can teach people about consent and assault without talking about rape culture. You can invite people to check their own biases, blind spots, privilege, and assumptions without automatically implying that anybody in particular is wicked or bad.

Above all, you've got to know your audience, remember the setting you're working in, and keep your eye on the end goal.

Things get especially dicey and dangerous when half-educated or newly-educated people are given the reins, because they tend to be the types of people to go overboard and frame everything in absolute black-and-white terms.

Some of this sounds like bullshit, though. I've known some pretty ardent feminists, and none of them ever proposed anything as bizarre as banning references to gender outright. There's a popular tendency to distort or exaggerate the details of sex and relationship educational programs in the hopes that people will freak out and toss the baby out with the bathwater, so that we can go back to the comfortable status quo.

[#00Buck]

3 hours ago, PastryOfApathy said:

I mean, I did post a selfie wearing a MAGA hat that one time.

Also there was that klan meeting I invited a couple people to last weekend but shhh....

It's a secret.

You are the Fur-heur!

[Red Lion]

To be honest I'm getting kind of tired of everything being one extreme or the other. This is good, that's bad. Gays need jesus vs you're only straight because society says you are. It's all two sides of the same coin. When I was a kid sex ed was this bullshit "There are boys and there are girls and if boys and girls touch each other they will get STDs and die in child birth."  The sex ed was segregated between boys and girls with the idea that teaching one group how the sexual functions of the other group worked was somehow immoral and irresponsible. Now it seems like in a matter of 15 years or so we've overshot that bullshit to a  different flavor of bullshit. My little sister hasn't started sex ed yet, won't for awhile, but some of the older kids in our neighborhood have and they're getting fed "sex and gender are social constructs, we're not here to teach you about your biology we're going to teach you about gender politics and ideology by the way if you get knocked up or get an STD you can come to the school guidance councilor and we'll help you deal with it. It's your life, your body and your choice!" This is usually given with the (often false) impression that you can talk to a councilor and not have to tell your parents what you've been up to. That if you get stuck with an unwanted pregnancy the school can smuggle you out to get an abortion in secret. I think it's a little irresponsible on the school's part to give minors the illusion of a safety net by implying that "mom and dad never need to know." Having read some of  the pamphlets and based on what my friends in the medical field (some of whom have gone on to work local schools and actively helped teach sex ed) I can definitely say sex ed has gotten way more political than educational and they're promising these teenagers a kind of fail safe that they don't actually have. Legally speaking teenagers aren't adults, they still need their legal guardians to provide for them. There's a vibe of "put your faith in the establishment" under this veneer of "be safe and responsible" and it makes me uncomfortable. 

 I can see the benefit in giving highschoolers access to planned parenthood when their parents maybe wouldn't. But I can't pretend I'm not uncomfortable with the idea that the school, who technically is not supposed to be responsible for more than the student's education, can interfere that much with a minor's life. Especially considering that I don't think they can actually keep those promises. They're completely useless at helping abuse victims get away from their environments and I'm pretty sure it's not legal for a teacher or administrator to remove a student from school grounds without parental permission. Likely the most they'll actually help with is handing out some condoms and maybe offering to sit down with a child's parents and discuss options. They're essentially selling kids on a false sense of security that everything will be fine if they talk to the all powerful guidance councilor and by the way whatever we teach you is more right than what anyone else will teach you. There's not actually much emphasis on learning to use your own judgement, more and more there's the appearance of cultivating a sense of trust in the establishment to always be right. 

Problem with the establishment is that at the end of the day the establishment is an entity with its own motivations and ideologies, and those are rarely objective. Even if they think they're right or they make good points, they're still trying to raise you, trying to teach you how to think and what to believe in. There is a lack of impartiality just as much now as there was more than a decade ago but it's swung in the other direction now. There is no forum for discussion,if you question those in authority or dare to disagree you aren't heard, you're mocked or shut down before a real debate can take root. 

It's not that people are wrong about indoctrination, necessarily, it's more that they're wrong about when it started. The establishment has ALWAYS tried to enforce a certain kind of ideology on you, it's just that now most of us are old enough to notice what's going on. What I think we should be teaching our youth is, now more than ever, to question the motivations of those in power and to rely more on individual self and less on those in positions of authority. Personal responsibility, objectivity, long-term consequences. These are things I'd emphasize when trying to impart something on the youth. Not "trust the people in charge to be right and take care of your needs" because the reality is that you absolutely CAN'T. There isn't actually a difference between them and us, all said and done, and they are just as capable of fucking up as anyone else.

[#00Buck]

I'm lucky. I never had Sex Ed. 

BTW Sex Ed sounds like the name of a really goofy porn star. 

Hi I'm Sex Ed. Here's your salami pizza! 

[Butters]

Your tears literally fill me with such joy, OP. <3

It's like All Lives Matter, Not All Men, #lockerroomtalk and "Why isn't there a White Entertainment Television?" all rolled up in one. 

 

[Toshabi]

1 hour ago, Butters said:

Your tears literally fill me with such joy, OP. <3

It's like All Lives Matter, Not All Men, #lockerroomtalk and "Why isn't there a White Entertainment Television?" all rolled up in one. 

 

• Literally addresses nothing in OP.

• Takes pompous, superiority stance.

• Dismisses any concern from party that disagrees with them, despite OP citing studies showing negative effects on the control groups of said studies.

• Completely stereotypes the OP rather than rebuting their position with facts, earnest reasonings and contradictions.

 

This, ladies and gentleman, is what a man who has been pussy slapped into feminism submission looks like. The only thing missing is them apologizing for being male.

[PastryOfApathy]

2 minutes ago, Toshabi said:

• Literally addresses nothing in OP.

• Takes pompous  superiority stance.

• Dismisses any concern from party that disagrees with them despite them coting studies showing negative effects on their control group.

• Completely stereotypes the OP rather than rebuting their position with facts, earnest reasonings and contradictions.

 

This, ladies and gentleman, is what a man who has been pussy slapped into feminism submission looks like. The only thing missing is them apologizing for being male.

SHUT UP YOU...

CIS!

WHITE!

MALE!

[MalletFace]

I just spent a couple of hours looking into everything the Victorian government has on this along with media reports.

Every article I read on the program in Victoria - which is actually called Respectful Relationships in Schools - says that the program claims that men will naturally abuse women. As it is, Respectful Relationships in Schools points to research programs and studies conducted by Victorian, Australian, and UN commissions that say things like a large number of individuals from all age groups "believe that rape results from men not being able to control their sexual urges" and that "domestic violence against men results from weakness on the man's part."

Here's the report on a survey that the Victoria State Government provides to supplement all of the other hours worth of reading. The survey was of young and older Australians' attitudes towards gender roles and violence in relationships. It is one of those reports that suggest that ideas like "Rape results from men not being able to control their sexual urges" need to be corrected through programs such as Respectful Relationships in Schools.

If you've ever studied psychoanalytic, sociological, or feminist approaches to patriarchy, you would know that most schools of thought view the idea that men are inherently predatory and sexual and must maintain their machismo is a result of patriarchal structures that repress legitimate masculinity and male expression. Targeting patriarchal structures identified by such schools of thought - which is what the Respectful Relationships in Schools program appears to be doing - means eliminating, not propagating, those ideas.

According to their evaluations of the pilot program, the Victoria State Government found that ideas like "Sexual harassment is something that only happens to girls," "Domestic violence is a private issue and requires no legal action," and "Domestic violence against men results from weakness on the man's part," were reduced in students that participated in the pilot program in quite a few schools. Here's the final evaluation of the pilot, but they've released others. As that is so, if you're like Kevin Donnelly or Jeremy Sammut who told The Australian that "there’s little, if anything, in there that acknowledges the impact of violence on men and young boys" or that it is "taxpayer-funded indoctrination," respectively, you may want to read what the Victorian State Government has provided. It seems they haven't, or they choose to ignore it.

Even more, the Victoria State Government found that it was targeting gender roles and equality in relationships, but some students expanded what they were taught in that realm to the rest of their life. For example, one young woman that participated in the program related that, "In sports classes, the sports teachers kind of talk to the boys more than the girls… They constantly think that we can’t do it." A young man that participated in the program noted that boys are pushed towards roles in STEM fields, politics, and the military while in school, but girls are shunned away from those same roles.

I couldn't actually find anything on the Finland thing. Could I get a link to some government statements or even just news articles? I couldn't even find any Finnish language articles.

11 hours ago, Sarcastic Coffeecup said:

"We acknowledge sexes are not necessarily biological, but social and cultural constructs"

Besides finding this thread, looking up that exact statement leads me to a few articles trying to explain social constructionism in as concise a format as they can. I don't know if you meant that as a direct quote, but I can't find any English language sources with that statement anywhere but here.

If you are legit confused by social constructionism, this video is an okay introduction. It is by a high school teacher - I think - summarizing in-class studies, but it is decent. One would have to read Berger, Foucault, Wittgenstein, and on and on to understand what's going into its discussion and interpretation.

2 minutes ago, Toshabi said:

• Literally addresses nothing in OP.

• Takes pompous  superiority stance.

• Dismisses any concern from party that disagrees with them despite them coting studies showing negative effects on their control group.

• Completely stereotypes the OP rather than rebuting their position with facts, earnest reasonings and contradictions.

This, ladies and gentleman, is what a man who has been pussy slapped into feminism submission looks like. The only thing missing is them apologizing for being male.

So what, say, is something like

?

[Toshabi]

4 minutes ago, PastryOfApathy said:

SHUT UP YOU...

CIS!

WHITE!

MALE!

[Toshabi]

6 minutes ago, MalletFace said:

 

So what, say, is something like

?

[ZorroValdez]

I watched a surgery video of a man getting his peener turned into a vagooter.

And this makes less sense.